NS OCS Train

c.sam posted:

My knowledge of 'real' trains is not very deep so please keep your chuckles below an audible level..  :-)

Was just watching a couple of videos on the NS Business train and am curious as to the ABBA configuration - are 4 units needed for certain stretches of track they travel? 

Yes, depending on haw fast they want to ascend grades, plus all that dynamic brake capacity is VERY handy depending grades.

Are all 4 fully functional? 

Yes.

Visually impressive and 'balanced' but are they 'necessary?

Again, Yes.

 

c.sam posted:

My knowledge of 'real' trains is not very deep so please keep your chuckles below an audible level..  :-)

Was just watching a couple of videos on the NS Business train and am curious as to the ABBA configuration - are 4 units needed for certain stretches of track they travel?  Are all 4 fully functional?  Visually impressive and 'balanced' but are they 'necessary?

 

That would depend on the size of the train and  tonnage.

How many cars?   ABBA? Did these engines have Dynamic brakes?

Are you talking about how many big girls are on board?  Just wondering. 

Keep in mind that often when this train runs, it often carries a VERY LARGE consist of cars, they often go through territory with fairly stiff grades, they wanted enough backup in case of any failures on the road,  AND remember that these are not 4000 HP freight units.  The F9A units are rated at 1800 HP, and the two F7B units have both been upgraded to 2000 HP in different ways, so the total consist still has less HP than two modern road units which is likely what the train would run with if they didn't have these locomotives.   I also believe the original thinking was that they could split the consist and run two smaller trains if needed, but I'm not sure how often this has actually ever occurred.  I know that while each  B unit was getting upgraded, they ran as an A-B-A set.  I am also fairly sure that one of the reasons for the A-B-B-A set was that former CEO Wick Moorman was responsible for the F units coming to NS, and I'm pretty sure he thought the A-B-B-A set was cool, which it IS.  Moorman is an unapologetic rail fan..  If I had been running NS, it would have been four E units, but oh well.....

Gregg posted:

Did these engines have Dynamic brakes?

No, they do not. You need to stretch brake the train everywhere you go. They do have ECP brakes now.
One other thing that they don't have is a large fuel tank. Every time they came into Roanoke, there was a tanker truck waiting at the "Piggy-back ramp" area to refuel them.

Thank you,,, + That's what I thought. Other than unit trains I don't see railroads modifying  every railroad car to meet ECP standards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...led_pneumatic_brakes 

So Wick is the reason the F units, heritage units, steam excursions, etc. came to NS? With Wick gone will the F units and heritage units continue to run? Without a rail fan in charge at NS it seems that playtime is over and NS will get more serious again and cut costs, that is not spend money on frivolous stuff. If the steam program was just temporary, then are the heritage units temporary as well? Will they eventually be retired like regular black diesels or repainted into NS?

You'll have to ask "Carnac the Magnificent".

Robert K posted:

then are the heritage units temporary as well? Will they eventually be retired like regular black diesels or repainted into NS?

When these were produced, an employee at the alto engine shops told me they were to remain in heritage colors until they were shopped for any major rebuild work.at that time they are suppose to revert back to the standard black / white lettering scheme. All though not being a official heritage loco, How they repaint #4001 might be the answer to this question.

Big Jim posted:

You'll have to ask "Carnac the Magnificent".

That is impossible.  Johnny Carson is dead.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Big Jim posted:

You'll have to ask "Carnac the Magnificent".

That is impossible.  Johnny Carson is dead.

Not according to "Johnboy & Billy"! 

Dieselbob posted:

. . . the total consist still has less HP than two modern road units which is likely what the train would run with if they didn't have these locomotives.

There ya go . . .  That's the answer.

Number 90 posted:

Dieselbob posted:

. . . the total consist still has less HP than two modern road units which is likely what the train would run with if they didn't have these locomotives.

There ya go . . .  That's the answer.

Star date: 2005 BFU

Two SD70 locos, five car train!
This train would roll!!!

I heard that all four units were upgraded to GP 38-2"s when they were overhauled.

clinchfield bill posted:

I heard that all four units were upgraded to GP 38-2"s when they were overhauled.

Internally, yes.

Do all 4 have the same horse power I would think they do. I have the OGR dvd with you talking about the guy from MTH calling you about the Daylight that’s a neat story. What two engines pulled the Freedom train into Washington D.C.

The A units have blown 16-645E's rated at 1800 HP.  B unit #4275 has a turbocharged 16-645E rated at 2000 HP (not sure how you get the HP down to 2000 from 3000 on that), and B unit # 4276 has turbocharged 12-645E rated at 2000 HP.  All four units have been upgraded to Dash-2 electrical systems,  AR10 alternators, and TMV traction and engine control units. The B units have electronic fuel injection.

Dieselbob posted:

The A units have blown 16-645E's rated at 1800 HP. 

Not sure what the units REALLY have in them but, a "16-645E" (roots blown), which would be a GP38-2 prime mover, is rated at 2000 HP.

B unit #4275 has a turbocharged 16-645E rated at 2000 HP (not sure how you get the HP down to 2000 from 3000 on that),

Again, not sure what is REALLY in the unit but, a "16-645E" is roots blown and NOT turbocharged, same as the GP38-2 prime mover is rated at 2000 HP. 

and B unit # 4276 has turbocharged 12-645E rated at 2000 HP.  All four units have been upgraded to Dash-2 electrical systems,  AR10 alternators, and TMV traction and engine control units. The B units have electronic fuel injection.

 

To my knowledge, none of the OCS F units are turbocharged. 

Big Jim posted:

To my knowledge, none of the OCS F units are turbocharged. 

I was REALLY wondering about that, since the intake air requirements for an EMD turbocharged 645 engine, and quite high, not to mention the MUCH larger cooling system required for pretty much ANY engine over 2000 HP. Also, a turbocharged EMD engine pretty much requires some sort of central air intake/filtration compartment, which would be a bit of a challenge to build into an old F Unit. 

My information came from Chris Toth, who is generally considered to be the internet expert on Norfolk Southern motive power. This information has been on his website and his Facebook page for some time, and I have not seen anyone dispute it.  Beyond that, I can't offer anything more.

Yes, it appears that they have been converted: http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/4275.html 

Also see: http://www.altoonaworks.info/rebuilds/ns_funits.html