NYC E8s Get promoted in Passenger Service

I do like the improved look!

Great job! 

That is excellent work and great that you modeled such a classic prototype. Well done.

Those engines are going to be my sought after ones from now on. I waffled looking for 2 rail versions and also Amtrak ones. So I have been missing out.

Very nice work.

Just a note for humor only. I always bought 3 rail stuff and converted it to KDs before ever running them. Now I'm unboxing some stuff and seeing problems with claws at different heights, drooping, dropping out, etc. I used to believe the claws were much better.

I see an actual design flaw appear. When the 3 rail coupler on the back of my 3rd Rail Allegheny goes into curves, it actually goes down. It is already mounted too low, + drooping, and barely couples. When it leaves the straight detent position, it is forced down even lower. I'm not sure who designed that but it sure looks like a problem. I have to raise it up, fix the drooping, and maybe then the lowering by the detent tab into curves won't be so bad???

Do the K line engines have that detent on their mounts?

They do Joe. They use a standard Lionel coupler mount. The detent is for self centering but the coupler should not droop. Check the spring under the coupler mount. It might be too weak. The springs on the K-Line couplers are pretty stiff.

Pete

What do you think about the Weaver ones? I hate to say this but I can't really see much difference between all the manufacturer's models.

Yours' do look good to me.

Referencing your title, the EMD E units were built and purchased for passenger service, i.e. they were NOT freight units and thus did NOT "get promoted to passenger service".

The NYC lightening stripe paint scheme has always been one of my favorites.  I guess it because they always seemed to appear in all the same Lionel catalogues as the corresponding Santa Fe's.

They look MUCH better with the silver trucks and fuel tanks.  Nice job.

Hi Pete 

Very nice work ! It looks great 

Alex 

Very nice Pete. You've certainly breathed new life into these with vastly improved looks!

Possible improvement suggestion: From the photo of the actual E-unit, it looks like the pilot is definitely not "black". Maybe it is grey.

Very nice job. It really does improve the locomotive a lot. 

Looks great.

Now only if the real ones would get promoted to passenger service.

Hot Water posted:

Referencing your title, the EMD E units were built and purchased for passenger service, i.e. they were NOT freight units and thus did NOT "get promoted to passenger service".

The BN regeared a few E7's to run out their last few years for transfer service out of Cicero.  It didn't last long.

The Colorado & Southern E5's also ran in freight service near the end of their lives.  Even with 5-6 units, they needed some SD's in the consist.

Rusty

 

TM Terry posted:

Possible improvement suggestion: From the photo of the actual E-unit, it looks like the pilot is definitely not "black". Maybe it is grey.

Thanks guys. Like I said this is still a work in progress.

Terry, I think you may be right about the gray pilot.  I was going on the fact that the freight pilots appeared to match the black trucks and the pilot in the B&W photo above appears darker than body. Hard to tell as that pic shows heavy weathering and lack of maintenance. Further surfing has produced these pics.

Now to find some matching gray.

Pete

"Referencing your title, the EMD E units were built and purchased for passenger service, i.e. they were NOT freight units and thus did NOT "get promoted to passenger service"."

Correct.

"What do you think about the Weaver ones? I hate to say this but I can't really see much difference between all the manufacturer's models."

Solid, truck-like Samhongsa-built models. I have a NYC pair, bought new when they came out. Wouldn't hesitate to buy a pair if I needed another for some reason.

Caveats on the Weavers: no flywheels on the motors (never found that to be an issue); the pilots are very plain (like PW Lionel F-3's) - not really wrong, but more like the "passenger" pilot used on the PRR and elsewhere; the metal FARR-grills along the sides of the upper body tend to come loose in spots and get wavy (CA-fixable); and, most amusingly, the tooling for the bodies is missing something very important for the real locos - there are no exhaust stacks on the top. None. Easy bit of modeling. 

Pete, That's a big improvement to these E-units.  Do you plan on doing the screens too?

Doug

A NYC E8 with lightening stripes and silver trucks and fuel tank .....can't better get better than that for a New York Central diesel. You did a great job on those engines. 

trnluvr posted:

Pete, That's a big improvement to these E-units.  Do you plan on doing the screens too?

Doug

Thanks again guys. I have repainted the pilots. The units are now about 1/16" longer due to the many layers of paint trying to match the color. I used up about half my Floquil collection in the process. Its not exact but somewhat close. I said uncle after about 20 tries. I don't think anyone makes an exact match for the color K-Line used.

Doug, I may do the screens when I figure out how to remove them without damaging anything. I have to elongate the slots anyway as they are bowing out when the plastic shrinks due to temperature.

Stay tuned.

Pete

D500 posted:

"What do you think about the Weaver ones? I hate to say this but I can't really see much difference between all the manufacturer's models."

Solid, truck-like Samhongsa-built models. I have a NYC pair, bought new when they came out. Wouldn't hesitate to buy a pair if I needed another for some reason.

Caveats on the Weavers: no flywheels on the motors (never found that to be an issue); the pilots are very plain (like PW Lionel F-3's) - not really wrong, but more like the "passenger" pilot used on the PRR and elsewhere; the metal FARR-grills along the sides of the upper body tend to come loose in spots and get wavy (CA-fixable); and, most amusingly, the tooling for the bodies is missing something very important for the real locos - there are no exhaust stacks on the top. None. Easy bit of modeling. 

Thank you for the reply!

The flywheel is important for installing MTH PS boards that I mainly use. If I got a set and they had TMCC inside, I would just run them with that. I have had good luck installing flywheels on many engines that didn't have them. Some are a pain though.

Thanks to Doug for pointing out the screens. Here is where it stands today. Also tuned up the ERR Cruise or rather eliminated some wires that were dragging on a flywheel. These engines, running light, draw less than half an amp total with 4 motors.

Pete

Hot Water posted:

Referencing your title, the EMD E units were built and purchased for passenger service, i.e. they were NOT freight units and thus did NOT "get promoted to passenger service".

They look great whether they were promoted from freight service or not. People keep forgetting these are toys this not real life if you want to promote them its up to you it is your railroad.

Now they really look sharp!  I'll have to do the same treatment to mine after seeing yours. Do you have the number for the P&D pilot you used.

Thanks, Doug

Promoted from freight or not, you did a beautiful job on these.  The EMD E's and F's are my favorite diesels.  While the E's were designated for passenger use, our hobby has taken many "liberties" on decorating almost every model.  In the original paint, they did look like freight engines.  Thanks for sharing!

Tony

trnluvr posted:

Now they really look sharp!  I'll have to do the same treatment to mine after seeing yours. Do you have the number for the P&D pilot you used.

Thanks, Doug

Doug, I used the P&D 5140 passenger pilots and the 5141 pilot doors on the lead unit. I also bought some 5131 pilot brakets but never used them.

To remove the screens I removed the fan motor assembly and also slid the side door frames down on their tracks. One had been glued in by the PO but I was able to pry it off without doing noticable damage. Be careful when bending the tabs. I only broke one but they won't withstand many bend cycles. The material is brass.

Hey its Christmas so no arguments today but I never said anything about freight service. Only that some units got the silver paint treatment and other did not. Plenty of photos of E Units with black trucks out there.

See how rumors get started.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Doug, I used the P&D 5140 passenger pilots and the 5141 pilot doors on the lead unit. I also bought some 5131 pilot brakets but never used them.

To remove the screens I removed the fan motor assembly and also slid the side door frames down on their tracks. One had been glued in by the PO but I was able to pry it off without doing noticable damage. Be careful when bending the tabs. I only broke one but they won't withstand many bend cycles. The material is brass.

Hey its Christmas so no arguments today but I never said anything about freight service. Only that some units got the silver paint treatment and other did not. Plenty of photos of E Units with black trucks out there.

See how rumors get started.

Pete

where did you find the screens?

@jeremy ferrell posted:

where did you find the screens?

The screens referred to are the ones that came with the engine. I just removed them for repainting.

Pete

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

Since doing that K-Line engine I picked up an MTH E8. The intent was to use the chassis for another road but those shells never came up so I gave this the same treatment as the K-Line engines. I was very fortunate as these became available when prices were at a null point. MTH had recently announced it was closing, the pandemic was starting and it was advertised as not working. Being PS2 5v not surprising but I had upgrade kits on hand. Could I find 4 more at this price it still would be less than what others want for one of these ABA sets.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Since doing that K-Line engine I picked up an MTH E8. The intent was to use the chassis for another road but those shells never came up so I gave this the same treatment as the K-Line engines. I was very fortunate as these became available when prices were at a null point. MTH had recently announced it was closing, the pandemic was starting and it was advertised as not working. Being PS2 5v not surprising but I had upgrade kits on hand. Could I find 4 more at this price it still would be less than what others want for one of these ABA sets.

Pete

Funny you mentioned the mikes E8's.   What got me asking about your's  is I picked up a set of C&O e8's from this same run and was hoping to copy some of your upgrades.   I ordered one of the passenger pilots and door to try out fixed mount.   I'm curious to see what if any clearance's issues may come up with the front truck.  

If I can get them visually up to par,   My plan is to do a full Ps3 upgrade with and repaint.   Thanks for chiming in on these.   Hard to beat E-units.  

Jeremy, its shouldn’t be a problem mounting the P&D pilots. They were an exact fit for the K-Lines but the MTH should have a very similar curve. I didn’t use them on MTH NYC E8 because I expected they would get UP shells and wanted to wait until I knew what color to paint them.

On the K-Line NYC engine I glued the plastic pilots to the shell. On another K-Line UP E8 I glued styrene to the top of the pilot and screwed the pilot to the frame like the existing one was. Both ways work and no worries about truck swing if you use a coupler cover or scale coupler. Just don’t use fixed pilots with the big claw. That won’t work. BTDT.

Here is the same pilot on my K-Line UP E8s.

Pete

Upgraded appearance for NYC's premier trains vs. the regular all stops milk runs indeed.  Nice looking promotion for a pair of E's.

Maybe a dumb question - what are P&D pilots?

@SuperChief posted:

Maybe a dumb question - what are P&D pilots?

Scale components from the "P&D Hobby Shop". I believe they are located in Detroit, MI.  Try a Google Search for their site.

@Norton posted:

Jeremy, its shouldn’t be a problem mounting the P&D pilots. They were an exact fit for the K-Lines but the MTH should have a very similar curve. I didn’t use them on MTH NYC E8 because I expected they would get UP shells and wanted to wait until I knew what color to paint them.

On the K-Line NYC engine I glued the plastic pilots to the shell. On another K-Line UP E8 I glued styrene to the top of the pilot and screwed the pilot to the frame like the existing one was. Both ways work and no worries about truck swing if you use a coupler cover or scale coupler. Just don’t use fixed pilots with the big claw. That won’t work. BTDT.

Here is the same pilot on my K-Line UP E8s.

Pete

Those look great.   Thanks for being a pioneer on all this! sure did make my project much easier.  I'm glad the coupler swing won't be a problem.   I plan to do the lead unit with coupler cover per transition era prototype for my era of operation.  The trailing unit will get a scale couple and exposed hoses per Deisel Era prototype.  My long-term plan is to set the slave unit up as its own Powered and controlled unit.   That combined with the cometic odds will give me two era accurate protype powered units.   The next thing for at least my C&O models is to hopefully find a way to change out those number boards with the mini #'s to something closer to accurate size.    I will update with photos when the pilot arrives, and I start work on them.

When I mounted the pilots of my E6s to the body shell I had to cut the body mounts to get everything to scale height. I think I did a post on this a couple of years ago.

Once I see what the sum of the parts looks like.   I'll investigate the ride height