NYC Heavyweight Passenger car question

Sounds like what you want are MTH's generic NYC green heavyweight sets. They have made several over the years in both silhouette and full interior options. The thing that always annoyed me about them though was the PRR-style porthole windows in the head-end cars. The final time they released the cars they finally switched those doors over to proper NYC-style windows, and because of that they are very hard to find. I'm still after a set myself, so hopefully we don't end up competing for one 

http://www.collector-modeltrai...log_item/MT-0107031/

Lionel make a nice set of heavyweight NYC coaches in green Have a look at the 4 car set and the 2 car set  These are both in the current catalogue.

Nicole, the Lionel sets are specifically 20th Century Limited so most of the cars have "PULLMAN" markings. Could be wrong but I suspect this person may be looking for a basic all-NYC train.

Thanks Nick. I thought that I would mention them as he did state that he wanted Pullman green.  (And it never hurts to have a choice. )

Exactly. I seen the porthole set several times, same reason I turned them down. We'll probable be competing when set(s) come up. Thanks.

Nicole, it's just funny because someone on another forum posted this same exact inquiry only yesterday, but also specified he wanted NYC markings only on the cars. Just taking a wild guess this could be the same person 

Josef, glad I was able to help you find what you wanted. Now to pry it from my cold dead hands next time it's at auction  (Seriously though, I know someone who has one but it's a bit out of my price range. Email me.)

Sorry, the other person wasn't me. So now there's 3 of us. Going to be a battle on who got the thick wallet, or able to secure a 2nd mortage.

And probably 10 more that don't post on forums. I'm hoping I'll be able to bow out of that race by finding a set at this coming York.

Hope MTH is listening, opportunity knocking. Have passengers for the sets, now need to build them.

I have the latest MTH Pullman Green set. I am reluctant to sell it as the trucks are plagued with zinc rot. I would suggest either waiting for MTH to do another run or get the earlier cars with interiors and no figures. You can add figures and even anti rattle bars found on the new cars. The older trucks have one piece side frames which are not are detailed but they are bulletproof. MTH might sell you the later baggage doors which can be used in the earlier cars with slight modification. I have cast my own using the doors from the tainted late model cars. AFAIK only MTH has done all NYC pullman green sets.

Pete

Well crap, I hope not all of those latest runs are infected as I really want a set. I also just bought the same cars but in TTG, do those have the same issues Pete?

The only other option I can point you guys to are Golden Gate Depot's generic green NYC heavyweights. They are the full scale 21" as opposed to Lionel and MTH 18" style. They may have a few issues though, the trucks are only 2-axle commuter style and they are based on the company's PRR P70 coaches and not 100% accurate for NYC. Despite this, people still shell out big bucks whenever these come up at auction. I believe they were made in three unique sets of 4 cars each, and also had a baggage / diner / observation set to finish it off. So it's a pretty huge set if you gather them all.

I don't know how many sets were affected or even if some of the green cars are OK. Since I have only seen a few posts by others noting the problem I tend to believe the later cars might be good. I think the gray cars came along two years after the green cars.

Pete

Just checked, the latest release of green cars were cataloged in 2005 and the TTG cars were cataloged in 2008. Guess if I ever find a set of the green cars I'll have to ask for an inspection of the trucks.

Didn't you mean to say, if "we" ever---

OK, In addition to the 2005 NYC set 20-4071 I also have a 2006 Pullman set 20-4081. So far the Pullman set has all its trucks intact. The trucks also have a much glossier finish than the NYC trucks. I checked the few broken truck parts and they all have the satin finish of the NYC trucks. I take that to mean they were produced at the different time and will be free of defects.

Here is some pics showing a car from the Pullman set coupled to a add-on car lettered for NYC. The add car was offered in 2004 but has the factory added details of the later cars including sprung trucks and anti rattle bars. The early car has solid trucks so maybe the bad trucks were limited to cars offered in 2005.

For comparison here are pair of earlier MTH cars. They have simulated sprung trucks and come without figures. At this point figures had been added but not anti rattle bars.

Here is a finished early car. MTH made two sets of NYC cars with interiors but no figures.  

One set numbered 20-4022 is lettered NYC. That set has received the treatment below.

Once you add figures and anti rattle bars the cars are identical to the later cars save the trucks.

Finally here is an early baggage car with porthole doors replaced. I have been collecting extra baggage and RPOs for a fast mail train.

Pete

Thanks Pete! Could we see a photo of the rotting trucks so we know what to look for?

Does anyone produce an observation car like this one?

Nick, You can't tell by looking at them if they are bad. When I got my set (second hand) the trucks appeared to be OK but as soon as I started handling them they broke in my hand.

Here are some of the pieces. Many more are now in a landfill.

Pete

Thanks John. That coach has always struck me as being very impressive looking. 

Surprised at how few ever show up on E-Bay or for sale on forums. Opportunity for a manufacturer to remake these Heavyweights with interiors. Seems the market is there.

Picked up a RailKing NYC 4 car set #30-1613, 60' Madison cars today. Includes the Baggage, 2 coach, and a Solarium end car. Mint never run, under 200.00.

I'm assuming those are closer to 15" than 18"? The 18" models are as short as I'm willing to go, otherwise they start to look too toy-ish to me...

16 5/8" long, 3 1/2" high. Actually don't look toylike.

I like the MTH heavyweights and run them with the Lionel heavyweights with silhouettes.  The MTH heavyweights are significantly heavier (due to their interiors) than the Lionel heavyweights with silhouettes.  They will drag down a Premier or K-Line scale Hudson but do not even slow the Williams Hudson with its four traction tires.

Hi Josef and Nick,

 Just happened to see this thread.  I picked up a 7 car set of MTH heavyweight NYC passenger cars at a local train show a while ago and would sell them if anyone is interested.  These are the #4022 NYC Pullman green 5 car set which include baggage car #5045,  3 coaches #'s 2522. 2523, and 2525,  and observation #1015.  The drumhead is lettered for the 20th Century Limited.  This set was from 1998.  Also have the #4122 NYC Pullman green 2 car set which includes combine #411 and diner #392.  This set was from 1999.  All cars have interiors but no passenger figures.  There are no boxes or foam inserts.  The 5 car set is missing the plastic underbody piece on all five cars.  The 2 car set has no missing parts,  Other than the missing underbody pieces,  the cars are like new with little or no wear on the wheels or rollers and the bodies have no blemishes.  I was going to use these for P&LE conversions, but have decided to go another route.  I will sell the 7 cars as a set only for $210 plus shipping.  If interested,  my email address is in my profile.

Thanks, Nick

Thanks for taking the time to write. Unfortunately as was discussed above I was not looking for any of the earlier releases because of those incorrect porthole windows in the head end cars.

josef, exactly. The premier cars are already pretty truncated at around 18". Any shorter and I personally pass.

Has anyone tried running the new lionel heavyweight NYC passenger cars on 048 fastrack . It says on there website that you need 054. These cars are hard to find and I would like to get a set .

   Norm

Heavyweight cars from what I see, are scarce, surprised they aren't being made, since the demand is there. Even on E-Bay, they go quickly. Even in the 60s, Heavyweights is what I travelled in, more then streamlined.

There was a dealer at York that had two MTH NYC 7 car heavyweight sets. They were from different years and had interiors but no figures. He had updated all the cars with sprung trucks and recent style underframes. These were purchased from MTH in the past couple of years and appear to be slightly different from the 2005 sprung trucks. I spoke to someone at the MTH parts booth and he was aware of the problem with failing trucks. I believe the problem has been corrected in subsequent years.

I saw one Lionel heavyweight 20th Century set at the show. 

Pete

I spotted a multitude of Lionel and MTH NYC heavyweight sets at York. However it was interesting that not a one of them were the latest release. Seems people know to hang onto those.

Pete, was the Lionel 20th Century Limited set you saw the 2004 run or the very recent one with a new set of car names? I never saw it. I did see quite a number of the original Commodore Vanderbilt heavyweights from the 90s.

Josef. Have you received the railking nyc 4 car set yet. I was looking at them on ebay . then I saw that you had bought them . That was a good find and at a great price.

   Norm

Nick I believe it was the 2004 set as it included a Station Sounds Diner. I don't have the set numbers memorized but am sure they at least had the interiors. Lots of Lionel and K-Line silohuette cars though. 

Pete

The numbers would have been 15521, 15538, and 15541. I'm curious what the price was. I paid $550 for my complete 2004 seven car set like new in the boxes.

I did finally see a set of the K-Line Pacemakers in the Red Hall, but they were the first silhouette release.

Here is a followup on the MTH truck Issue. I was able to find some replacements complete with frames, weights, and screws that a vendor had purchased to upgrade the older cars that did not have sprung trucks. While swapping out the problematic trucks with my newly purchased ones I noticed the bad ones are constructed differently than the newer ones. The new ones have a clearance slot for the ground wire while the ones from my problematic 2005 NYC set did  not. I don't know when the design change was made so some without the slot may be made of good alloy but I am wiling to believe the ones with the slot might be OK. Time will tell. 

BTW I was getting mixed stories from MTH. One person said yes they are aware of the problem and was willing to give me good trucks if he had them, which he did not. Another claimed ignorance of the problem. I opted to purchase the replacements rather deal with MTH and get the run around.

Bad Trucks:

Replacements:

Pete

I also saw Pacemakers with silhouettes at Island Trains. Moot point now since MTH is showing a set in their new catalogue along with another run of Pacemaker boxcars.

Pete

Yes, got the set and looked good pulled by the Hudson. Working on cars to change to LED lighting and add figures.