NYC Hudson question

    Hudsons Pulling Hoppers.

I believe most of the Hudson locomotives worked on the NYC to the "end of steam days"

I don't know the details, but the Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo got two J1e's(?) from the NYC in 1948.

Rusty

Interesting,from what i can find on the net ,the New york Central and CP owned the TH&B. I guess  might explain  the THB  ending  up with 2 of them.

I can recall some of the older engineers I worked with  talking about the NYC  Hudsons  arriving in Toronto... When they let a" bark"  out of them  everyone knew they were in town... We (CN) had 5 Hudson's , 5700 to 5704 inclusive   Not quite as powerful as the NYC ones......  

I worked for Canadian National.   I have no idea who the major shareholders  are that  now run CN rail . probably you guys   Hmm Bill Gates is the largest share holder. Keep the pension cheque coming  Bill. notch it up a bit. Tough winter

Then there's that "secret" NYCS Hudson stashed in a barn in Michigan, or so the story goes.  Actually there are two ex-Central sharks that are hiding in a barn in Michigan! I'm afraid that if we really want a J1 / J3 locomotive, we'll have to build her new...but since everyone around here says we can't....then we can't !

A replica of a NYC Hudson could be built in China.

You would trust the quality from China????? Not me!

There is absolutely no need to go off-shore for high end precision weldments. The technology and expertise exists right here in the god old U.S.A.

Really? You're usually one of the first ones to jump on the "that technology doesn't exist in the USA anymore" bandwagon....

You are absolutely right, when it comes to solid one piece cast engine bed frames. However, if one only wants to produce just one locomotive, then the increased expense of a combination of casings and steel plates, welded together, makes perfect sense. But, the massive foundry industry nom longer exists to produce high quality, one piece cast engine beds with cast integral cylinders. 

We COULD build almost any steamer we wanted right here, with the possible exception of Jawn Henry.  The key is believing.  If you don't collectively believe you can...then guess what?  It ain't gonna happen. The Brits don't have this ultra-nego mind set, and thusly can build Tornado and other stuff.  We seem to be OK with little tiny pint sized steamers, but have developed an attitude that bigger is not better. Makes me wonder how many people at EMD were thinking back in the early '60s, that you can't build a DD35/ DD35A??  I'm sure there were some, but fortunately they were overruled and left in the dust. Time for that to happen again !

......Things that make you go, Hmmmmm !   Methinks yunz just proved my point !

Actually, Hot's last sentence pretty much sums up your point. Warm and fuzzy ideas that "if only you believe, you can do it" do, indeed, make it sound like you have no idea what you are talking about.

I had no idea about the 5313 tender, that's really awesome to see at least some large part of an original Hudson surviving today.

Here's the photo of that engine from "Thoroughbreds" that I mentioned:

Believing= thought(s) resulting in action !   IF there was no believing, you'd never have had James Watt, Matthias Baldwin or Dick Dilworth...and we would not be having this conversation!

I believe I could play Major League Baseball. But it still ain't gonna happen.

IF you think you can't ....then you're right !   It's called attitude, sports fans, and if yunz think it doesn't matter, I suggest you talk to Mike Tomlin and the starting line-up of the Pixxburgh Stillerz !   Now OTOH, NS and their current management have gotten a handle on this (they think they CAN!)  The means to pull this 611 thing off will come slowly, but hey, it's coming!  Way to go, Wick ! 

Enthusiasm only goes so far.  Where's the organization, business plan, fundraising plans, proposed construction/maintenance/storage facility plans for a NYC 4-6-4 or whatever?  You just can't go "Hey guys, my uncle's got a barn, let's build a locomotive!"  Cheerleading without a team to cheer is pointless.

And as far as the 611 is concerned, it's the Virginia Museum of Transport's baby.  VMT owns the locomotive, will own whatever facilities are built for it and will be responsible for the 611's rebirth, care and feeding.  It's their neck on the line, not NS.  Yeah, the NS is offering some financial support and will allow it to run on their tracks (at least at this point in time) but the VMT is responsible for getting all the ducks in a row.

I hear a lot of quacking, but I don't see any ducks for a J3a reproduction.

Rusty

Boy, you gotta wear your fireproof knickers to this flame war...!

If you don't...ask yourself why!   Nobody is EVER going to convince me that the Brits could raise the funds for the Tornado, and we can't!  One reason I'm opimistic about the PRR T1 Trust is because they are working to identify what has NOT worked before and avoid the pitfalls as much as possible.  They are also developing some new sources to get their project moving, and working to get the right people involved. Will it work?  There's no guarantee, for sure...but at least they're going after it with the correct attitude.  A NYCS Hudson would be a much simpler project than the PRR T1 from a number of angles.  Hey, we're already a third of the way there with the 5313 tender ....OK, maybe a quarter!   It's just too bad that the RR fan base community couldn't cough up the six grand that Big Al Perlman wanted for a derelict Hudson back in the late '50s. Everyone assumed that "someone else" would set up to the plate and make it happen.  If the PRR T1 bunch is even partially successful, I'd bet a Central Hudson project won't be far behind. Now do you want a J3 for speed, or a J1 for "stuff" ???

The tender's the easy part.  It would probably cost less nowadays to build a new one than reconfigure the steam generator car.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.  It's always convenient to blame the past.  Ya can't go back and change it so it's time to stop carping about it.

I'll bet the Brit's thought about building the Tornado long and hard before embarking on the project and not just singing another round of "High Hopes"with Old Blue Eyes.  I'm also sure they made their share of mistakes and learned quite a bit on that project.

Why not start doing the legwork yourself and change your dreams into reality?  I'm sure you could organize a group of stout-hearted, like minded men to build your dream locomotive.

Don't just quack about it, prove me wrong.  Pointing to the 611 and 4014 doesn't count.  Actions, not words would get a NYC Hudson built.

Rusty

Only too happy to contribute to N&W 611, and a bit more to The T1 Trust, as the means are available.  I'm not the big Central guy around here, although most of you know who he is!  I'll kick in for a Hudson, but it will be lower priority. As for my dream chooch, when the T1 trust gets done with #5550, I'm lobbying for # 6400...the 126th

Pennsy 2-10-4 Jay.  And then, my friends, you'll see a real locomotive !  And we can get the tender from upstate NY, if they'll cough it up!

IF someone really wanted a Hudson bad enough, and it had to look like a J3.. (gotta go with one of the 20th Century shrouded ones, of course...) it would make major financial sense to just buy the NKP 170 from the museum in Kirkwood, and build a new boiler to plop on the frame. That would solve the frame and cylinder issue, running gear, etc. Even if the fact it only has 74" drivers, IIRC, the average Joe wouldn't be able to tell.

Ahoy there, Steam Fan.....you have just started World War III !   I'm going to run away and hide in the FM Train Master thread....right where a gigantic Dieselover like me should be..   

Gregg, I have just finished watching a video called "Steam Memories of Ontario" on RFDTV which includes commentary and memories of 4 CP and CN engineers and firemen. One of them commented that the J1 exhaust sounded like "rifle fire" and would rattle the windows of a nearby hospital. Apparently this was quite unlike any of the engines he was used to working on.

I thought it was pretty cool hearing about the sound from an actual witness.

The video is highly entertaining BTW due to their comments.

Pete

Hi Pete, Yeah it's a great video, on my own home turf as well. I know the CN fireman and worked with him many times  when he was set up as an engineer. He later became a rule instructor with his own car (heavyweight) that would go to the different terminals. The other CN hogger was a Master Mechanic, (one of the good ones). I didn't know the CP guys .I believe there's a shot of a CP  Steamer running backward bringing  in the Canadian that had engine (diesel problems) north of TO.. great stuff.

I've been looking for the video at train meets but haven't been able to find it.

There's a great shot of one of the CN Hudsons with about 5 or 6 cars of mail heading toward Montreal (i think) Man! that thing is moving.... Thanks for the reply.

Gregg,

If you'd like to get a copy of the video, you can get a taste-teaser on youtube here and if you like it, you can get a copy of the full video HERE!

Best,

Dave

Dave, that looks like a good video but its not the one I was referencing. What makes "Steam Memories of Ontario" special was the running commentary of actual train crews who ran many of the engines filmed. They could describe the various quirks and how they overcame problems encountered.

Pete

Pete,

Sorry, my bad!  (Note to self; put on bi-focals when reading...)

There are 2 copies of Steam Memories of Ontario available on AMAZON and 'more than 10' available on the Canadian version of 'the Bay'.  Both sources priced at about $25.  Since this is a great thread, I don't want to post the link to the Bay for fear of deletion...

Best,

Dave

I saw that video as well.  The commentary from the former crews was great.

Hi Pete, Dave. got one. thanks.

I was fortunate to start with the railroad when I did. Although I never worked on steam I did get to listen  to some great  stories from engineers who had spent 2/3s of their career on steam .  Never boring...

The soft-spoken voices of the enginemen in that video are quite soothing. That video has joined my recorded episodes of PBS's "The Joy of Painting " in my collection of "shows to drift off to sleep by".