NYC Hudson

I was gonna say...

Interesting post. I think it all comes down to "how much you want it"  Hotwater is right locomotives in the Uk are smaller and lighter but they are also ofern more complicated.

Tornado got built because the people behind the plan, individual enthusiasts, corporate sponsors and the general public wanted it - its a simple as that. The huge cost was found because of that "want".

I am part of a locomotive owning group here in the Uk and a sharholder in a preserved railway - maybe we Brits just look at things differently but as time goes by the things we said "would never get done" in railway preservation are one by one being crossed off as "done that".

There is no reason why that can't happen your way if there is enough interest and commitment.

CHEERS MIKE

One minor difference: those engines were already in existence.

This subject of building a Hudson from scratch is quite far removed reality, if for no other reason than there's no economic benefit to the party which might undertake it. In that respect, it's different from several other "back to the future" adventures going on:

Return of the zeppelin: California firm unveils gigantic amphibious airship which could revolutionize air travel as we know it

NEW The Aeroscraft is built in California using innovative technology which allows it to control its flight better than previous airships, so it should avoid the problems experienced by the first generation of zeppelins. It requires only a third as much fuel as an aeroplane carrying cargo, and it can take off and land anywhere even without a formal airstrip, making it well suited to war zones and disaster areas.

 

An Australian billionaire has released blueprints for the Titanic II, with plans to set sail across the Atlantic in 2016.

Blue Star Line/AP Photo

Real estate and coal magnate Clive Palmer announced his plans at the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum in New York on Tuesday.  He said the replica will look and feel like the original Titanic.  Some people may be uneasy about the idea, but Palmer said others are clearly fascinated by the Titanic’s story.

“The area [for] passengers will be authentic, with the same design and facilities. But there will be modern things such as air conditioning and other features we are debating — such as Internet on the ship,” Palmer said at a press conference.

Blue Star Line/AP Photo

The ship will be built in China. Crew members’ outfits will be inspired by the styles of 1912.  There will be dishes from the original menu for passengers to enjoy, Palmer said.

The Titanic II will carry 2,600 passenger and 900 crew members. There will be enough lifeboat space for all of them.

And to give passengers a true Titanic experience, there will be three passenger classes, just as there were  on the original ship in 1912. Palmer said those in first class will be kept apart from anyone in second or third class.

“There won’t be TVs in the staterooms, though,” Palmer said.

Blue Star Line/AP Photo

Palmer said 40,000 people have expressed interest in tickets on the ship, which will sail the original course from Southampton, England, to New York.

When asked about the original ship sinking and what makes his design different, Palmer said, “Anything will sink if you put a hole in it. I think it would be very cavalier to say it. I think people in the past have done that and lived to regret it.”

Palmer, a mining tycoon estimated to be worth $5.2 billion according to BRW magazine, wouldn’t announce ticket prices, but said prospective passengers are offering up to $1 million to get on board.

Palmer called the project “a tribute to the spirit of the men and women who worked on the original Titanic.”

The original Titanic, which sank in April 1912 after hitting an iceberg, has become one of the most enduring tragedies of the 20th century.  Some 1,500 people died when it went down; only 700 were saved.

Blue Star Line/AP Photo

Sounds like a pipe dream and foamer talk. Show us some evidence of real work being done.

http://hudsonrevivalproject.webs.com/

We want to thanks everyone who helped us reached 30 Fans on our Facebook page! With your support we can make the dream a reality!

Thanks for the link to that site, Ace. I did notice that nothing has happened on that site since the fall of 2011? Looks like they are making excellent progress.

Someone is making REAL progress on a 1.5" scale live steam Hudson!

http://www.jdlocomotiveworks.c...-Hudson-Project.html

Originally Posted by Bandomnjr:

Milwaukee Road 261 was purchased and restored by the Friends of the 261 organization, and it successfully ran it's first excursion in May. The decision has been made to restore N&W J 611 to operation.

One minor difference: those engines were already in existence.

 

This subject of building a Hudson from scratch is quite far removed reality, if for no other reason than there's no economic benefit to the party which might undertake it. In that respect, it's different from several other "back to the future" adventures going on:

 

 

 

Return of the zeppelin: California firm unveils gigantic amphibious airship which could revolutionize air travel as we know it

NEW The Aeroscraft is built in California using innovative technology which allows it to control its flight better than previous airships, so it should avoid the problems experienced by the first generation of zeppelins. It requires only a third as much fuel as an aeroplane carrying cargo, and it can take off and land anywhere even without a formal airstrip, making it well suited to war zones and disaster areas.

 

An Australian billionaire has released blueprints for the Titanic II, with plans to set sail across the Atlantic in 2016.

Blue Star Line/AP Photo

Real estate and coal magnate Clive Palmer announced his plans at the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum in New York on Tuesday.  He said the replica will look and feel like the original Titanic.  Some people may be uneasy about the idea, but Palmer said others are clearly fascinated by the Titanic’s story.

“The area [for] passengers will be authentic, with the same design and facilities. But there will be modern things such as air conditioning and other features we are debating — such as Internet on the ship,” Palmer said at a press conference.

Blue Star Line/AP Photo

The ship will be built in China. Crew members’ outfits will be inspired by the styles of 1912.  There will be dishes from the original menu for passengers to enjoy, Palmer said.

 

I've been hearing about the return of the commercial airship for over 20 years now.  The science program Nova did a show on it in the 1980's (along with one about high speed rail in the U.S....  Seem a bunch of politicians got a free ride to Japan for a week or two.)

Zeppelin is still in business making semi-rigid airships... 

I don't think an airship requires the massive foundry work that an NYC Hudson replica would need, just lightweight, strong materials and modern avionics.

As far as the Titanic replica, it seems so far to be self-financed.  Besides, commercial shipbuilding still exists in several places around the world, so the drydocks and construction infrastructure is still in place.

I don't think the pockets are that deep with the 11 members of the Husdson Revival Project.

Rusty

The Hudson Revival Project is not the project that this thread is dedicated to. The difference between the two projects is the "Revival version" plans to be a replica, while the Hudson I'm talking about will be a genuine member of the J-3 class.

All the "genuine" J3's were reduced to steel shrapnel a long time ago.

Rusty

If this is real, it's not a short putt. The original J-3 Hudson GSC cast engine beds were poured into the ground using two ladles. The sequence of the "pour" was based on GSC experience and was designed to reduce with a goal of eliminating voids and porosity, especially in the area of the pedestal jaws. The pour was covered with sand and cooled for more than one week. (That is what I heard described for all General Steel Casting (GSC) engine beds.) The final result usually had some imperfections such as porosity, which would have to be repaired by welding before any machining was done. For this reason, nickel in a small amount was added, perhaps 2-3%. The addition of the nickel would permit a weld repair.

I don't believe that this casting could be made in the USA in this post-industrial age. However, I do believe that Korea, China, and perhaps India could do this. In addition to the engine bed casting, a casting for either a 12 wheel or a 14 wheel tender would also be required.

As info, there is a "possibility" that an engine bed could be built using fabrications that would be welded together. The advantage is that fabs would be much smaller than a single large casting. The disadvantage is that jigs and fixtures to hold them in alignment and the use of preheat to maintain dimensions, straightness, etc. would be costly, and the outcome would be questionable.

After the castings were made, they would require machining. A ship works or some other organization with the ability to machine very large castings would be required. The US Navy might have or have access to such machining capability.

The boiler could be rolled in the USA, and other major parts such as driving wheel centers, while difficult, could be cast. The boiler would most likely be an all welded design. There are boilers still being made in the USA. There might be a problem with auxiliaries such as the feed water heater system, stoker, etc etc. but these things exist now on preserved locomotives. So they could be copied, but would be expensive.

In terms of cost, I ran a cost estimate for one in the early 1970's, and concluded that $10-$12M would get us a J-3a. That figure is probably double that today. (I used to develop cost estimates in one position I held during my career.)

A NYC J-3 Hudson, if one could be built, would be a stunning achievement. If a Hudson is built, I would be completely satisfied to see it in the Smithsonian. There will never be a better candidate.....

Big thank you to Hudson5432 for a very informational post. Facts always help. The ultimate plan would be to have the original smaller tender though.

Point is, there's no return on investment, so someone would have to be a real steam engine fanatic to spend millions on this Hudson. The other retro projects are being done with a profit motive and the expense can be justified (at least to those investing). I understand the Titanic is being built in China. Maybe that would be the best place to get a steam engine built if one had a mind to, given their relatively recent experience producing them. I rode behind one of those a number of years ago in Boone, Iowa. Worked fine.

We have enough "Made in China" stickers in this country as it is...

Assuming that this project comes to pass, would it be feasible to fabricate two sets of streamlining, one 20th Century Limited and one Empire State Express, that could be changed out every few years or so, or maybe even left off at times.  I draw this idea from the re-streamlining of Duchess of Hamilton a few years back, and how often Tornado has been repainted.

Aaron

Talk about putting the cart before the horse...  And the horse doesn't even exist.

Rusty

It will be built in India, Saheeb!   

Well....I wouldn't worry about anything like that just yet.

No problemo!   Ya just go down to your local hardware store and ask for Acme Instant New York Central Hudson powder....$39.98 for a twenty pound bag.  Take it home and pour it out on a large flat area of dirt.  Water it thoroughly and then come back two weeks later.  BOOM -  Instant (well, almost)  NYCS Hudson!  Caution:  DO NOT accidently mix your powder with the similar looking and smelling Instant GG1 powder, or you will end up with one truly gigantic P.O.S. !!!!

Who was the first customer:  Wily E?

Mixing the Hudson ans GG1 powders will give you mating worms, that is, Penn Central!

If some billionaire with good taste wants to play trains, a Hudson will be built. That's a big if.

nice to dream about

Rusty

The restoration work on the Santa Fe 3463 4-6-4 steam engine is being done by the Coalition for Sustainable Rail, which is "a collaboration of the University of Minnesota's Institute on the Environment (IonE) and the nonprofit Sustainable Rail International (SRI)" to quote their May 22, 2012 press release.

http://www.csrail.org/index.ph...s/35-press-release-2

p.s. I remember that image of the "PC" steam engine. It had to do with Walthers deciding - after (they said) numerous requests - to offer a decal set for a PC steam engine, even though no such engine ever existed.

It was part of an article containing Walther's response regarding criticism about the PC steam decal sets.  The artist was Gil Reid.

Some folks lacked a sense of model railroading humor even back in the 1970's...

Rusty