o-scale national

I believe that this will in fact happen - O Scale East. 

I went and enjoyed it. Forty mile drive so it was a no brainer I don't get to enough train shows to be too fussy. I had a shopping list and found everything I needed, plus extras...so for me it was beneficial. Since the attendance was down...this was on Friday, I was able to talk to several vendors at length about their products too.

 

Bob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No question if you live close enough[for me 2-3 hrs are doable] for a show. In this case Worster was 10 hrs rd trip[might do that for a Chicago type show] the Nationals tend to cover 4-5 days with all itenarys and lets face it the trading hall is the big draw JMHO

Dave, I saw nothing for Sunset Models.

David,

I was unable to attend due to a vacation scheduling conflict. I'll be at Strasburg next month, York in October, and Cleveland in November.

Bob

Bob,

 

Any updates on the delivery of the P70faR coaches? I saw Scott's long post a week or so ago and I didn't see any mention of them. He kinda rambled, so I might have missed it.

See you in August.

 

Buzz

I live in Northwest Iowa, AKA, Flyover country. I have made it to three nationals, Washington, St.Louis, and Indianapolis. St. Louis was poorly attended with a lot of dealers leaving at noon on Saturday. I went to Washington because my wife wanted to do some sight-seeing. Perhaps we need to try Chicago again. The brides can shop, we can see some of the busiest main line action in the US, maybe the Cubs. I understand there were problems with the last organizer so pick a different one.  Just my 2 bits worth.

 

Dick Donaway

The fact that there are only 11 replies to the whole thread and only one person who attended speaks volumes.

 

Hopefully attendance was better on Friday or Saturday then it was on Thursday when I went.

 

Few vendors and even fewer visitors.  I think there are nearly as many vendors at the Strasburg shows as there was at Worcester this year.

 

I do regret not seeing the contest models, hopefully someone will have pictures.

 

I made a few trips around the trading floor and then went upstairs to the lounge for a snooze since it was a 5 hour trip from PA for me.  Walked around once more and  I was out of the show in just over two hours.  Did not come back for Friday or Saturday given the the underwhelming number of vendors and product there. 

 

I recall that two years ago there was some discussion that folks were disappointed when the national was combined with the Indy show.  I didn't agree then and I definitely don't agree after this year's National.

 

This year's national had to be the smallest I can recall, not that I'm an oldhead when it comes to going to the nationals.   Had I not be so close I would say it was not at all worth going to.

 

It seems that the Chicago March Meet, O scale West, and the Indy show are the three to go to... but luckily we're blessed with the Strasburg shows that occur at just the right frequency.

 

I did check the contest models, and frankly there were not enough to even call it a competion....but that aside, the few that were entered were exceptional...I didn't take pictures unfortunately.

 

Bob

My take on the O Scale National and O scale shows in general is based on having attended many national conventions and other O scale shows over the years and for the last 10 +/- years being at those shows to represent Sunset Models/Golden Gate Depot.

 

I attend about 20 or so days of shows each year plus spend another half dozen travel days and was involved in the planning and running of the O Scale convention in Baltimore in 2009 as a member of the Baltimore O Scale Society (BOSS).

 

Representing Sunset/GGD I receive comments from many show attendees about what they think of the shows and the hobby in general and why they do and /or do not attend certain shows.

 

My read - supported by many others - is that as we age the train budgets of many of us are limited by  the financial requirements of caring for not only ourselves but aging parents as well as adult children requiring (or at least asking for) assistance.

 

Many show attendees have told me that they have become more selective in how to spend their train budget dollars with one result being careful scrutinizing of which shows to attend. Hence Chicago, being acknowledged as the premier O scale show, is seeing an increase in attendance while other major shows (read national conventions and others) have suffered with declining attendance.

 

As previously posted, there are considerations for a 2 day O Scale East show that would essentially replace the O Scale Convention. My take, supported by the comments to me by many other O scale hobbyists, is that the proposed venue would have a better chance for success than the traditional national convention.

 

One other comment I hear is that some of the familiar faces who would normally be at a show decided to stay home because they already have everything they need.

Free admission probably would not change that.

 

Bob T usually likes to add the caveat "opinion" to many of his posts. In the case of the above dissertation I'll just say "fact(s)".

Bear in mind more than a few of the major tableholders no longer attend these shows[age,health and they have not been replaced] the New England situation was bound to occur, a weaker show location will not support a national format JMHO.

I have always wondered why the O scale community feels that they need their own show.  Why not just attend the National Train Show as  part of the NMRA National Convention?  I think that attendance at the national show would show off O scale to a much larger group and may entice more people to the "King of Scales."

 

Perhaps the O scale community could establish and O scale "SIG" (special interest group) at an NMRA convention?  There seems to be a SIG for everything else such as operations, N scale, etc.

 

I bought my first 3rd Rail engine at the Seattle national show.  I think that was about 2000.  That was the start of my 3rd Rail collection.

 

I attend O Scale West nearly every year because it is about 30 miles from my home.  I wouldn't go to O Scale West if it was farther away, however. 

 

I attend NMRA shows whenever possible.  I wish that I could get to Atlanta this year.  I understand that the Misty Mountain and a couple of other outstanding O scale layouts will be on tour.  (I know that the Misty Mountain is 3-rail but it still shows what can be accomplished in O hi-rail.)

 

I have usually been disappointed by the lack of O scale models, vendors, displays, and layout tours at the NMRA shows.   

 

Just a thought.  Joe

I attended the O Scale National back a few years ago when it was held in Towson, MD.  I liked it (and I'm a 3-rail guy).  I always get a lot of ideas and detail parts you can't find at the traditional 3-rail shows (for whatever reason).

 

Maybe it should come back to the east.

 

George

I agree with you Joe. Combining it with the NMRA may actually help to bring new blood in to O. I don't like the isolationist mentality that I've seen in O and S.

I believe many years ago the O scalers fraternity had a falling out with the NMRA and as a result never really got involved with their conventions. The late John Page was the last O scaler to be editor at the Model Railroader mag and he left over a review of one of the big advertisers products, remember the NMRA is largely about modeling not collecting.

Most O Scalers are collectors and not modelers?

 

Rusty

Thought that was a bit odd myself,  

 

OTOH, many of us are collectors of accumulations to keep that closet filled with stuff that we'll never get to in our lifetime....

We had an NMRA national here, and they invited me to display my live steamer.  I got complimentary admission.  It was not worth the effort.

 

I did note that admission was four times the cost of O Scale West at the time.  O Scale West has always been worth the thousand mile drive and the three expensive hotel rooms for me.

Please speak for yourself.   The oscalers I know around me are modelers, not collectors.   They think nothing of customizing a brass engine, doing their own painting, or building craftsman kits.

 

To me it seems the collectors seem to be in the 3 rail fraternity.   They always seem to want it original in original box and don't paint it etc. etc.

 

As for the Model Railroader magazine and the NMRA, as far as I know, they have not formal or business relationship.

 

I don't think it would be that worthwhile to tie the O Scale National into the NMRA national.   I am a Life Member of the NMRA, but for my budget, they have priced me out of attending the nationals.   The last one I looked was at in Boston a few years ago.    I made an estimate of what it would cost me to go and gave up the idea.   I was up $1500 and had not picked any layout tours yet!    The registration alone was $250!    Layout tours were $30-35 apiece.    And the hotel was very upscale with the discount rooms were well over $100 as I remember.   

 

I can go to the Chicago show for about $300 for 3 days if I share a room and gas costs with a buddy.    I can to Indianapolis about the same.    Cleveland is an even cheaper trip for me, usually about 130 or so.    These are O Scale only shows.   I am fortunate that I am within 3-400 miles of the two big ones and 180 from the Cleveland show.   Cleveland is only 1 night in a hotel too, so that reduces the cost a lot.   I try to stay Red Roof Inns or one of the cheaper ones.   The guy that runs the Cleveland show, gets us a special rate at the nearby red roof.   It has 40 including tax for the last few years.

 

So with 3 all O scale shows a year, that also pretty much fills up my train show budget and satisfies my shopping urge.  

 

 

As popular as it may be it is possible that O Scale West may not be long for this world.  Rod Miller has stated he will retire from running it after the 2014 meet and as of the 2013 meet a replacement has not surfaced.  He's been advertising and looking for a replacement for almost 5 years.  Without someone at the helm it will fall apart quickly.  So if someone has the inclination and time...

I don't like it either.  The entire hobby--all scales--is far too small for that sort of thing.  I don't care about what may have happened in the past between this faction and that group, or whatever, because that's past history.  There needs to be a more cooperative attitude developed not only within scales and gauges, but also between different scales and gauges.  The "my choice is better than your choice" mentality is both juvenile and counterproductive to the perpetuation and betterment of the hobby. 

Dear All,

     I attended the 2013 SONC with Mike Rahilly on Friday. Mike had a fairly good day in sales and I picked up a few" can't live without" models. It should be noted I have attended O scale nationals since 1985 and have found them to be a lot of fun. I commend anyone who takes the responsibility of putting on a event like the National, or for that matter, O scale train shows in general. What I was very surprised about was the lack of the familiar faces of attendees and dealers that truly makes a National convention. The previous responders have given us all the reasons why, on why not, this convention was perhaps less than successful as past Nationals. Hopefully, the 2014 SONC in Montreal will change the trend. This reminds me of a local church trying to boost attendance by putting out a add in our local newspaper. It read "What's missing in our CH__CH". 

     As a NMRA member,past NMRA Division BOD, I would agree it would be great to form a relationship with them, HOWEVER, please note the registration for this year NMRA Convention in Atlanta is $149.00, Spouse- $60.00, Children-7 to 17- $30.00, none of the registrations include admission to The National Train Show- not affiliated with the NMRA.

 

  

 

Suddenly the $5.00 admission to the Strasburg shows is a BARGAIN!!!

 

                                              My TCW, John

Hi All,  I just printed this information out from the National Train Show website.  The cost of attending the NMRA is still expensive especially when you consider air and hotel costs.  Joe

 

Standard Registration

Standard Registration $149.00

Standard registration includes your convention packet (ID and neck wallet, pin, patch), a convention timetable, entry to all non-extra fare clinics and events, entry to the model contest and silent auction,  plus National Train Show entry all weekend (including pre-entry on Friday before the public).

Spouse/Companion Registration $60.00

Includes standard registration items and must accompany a Standard registration.

Youth Registration $30.00

Youth Registration for ages 7-17. Includes standard registration items and must accompany a Standard registration.

Having been also associated with the NMRA for a while now, and also somewhat involved in a relatively recent attempt to find some way coordinate the NMRA Nat'l with the OSN, I can pretty much tell you that it simply is not going to happen and that comes from both directions.

 

The simple cost of the NMRA Nat'l is always cited as a major impediment, and that is usually coupled with then little or no interest in what the NMRA Nat'l offers overall.

 

In sum, it's been a major "why bother" from both sides of the aisle; same story for the other non-HO scale and the Narrow Gauge.

Not trying to sound rude, but very simply, I have ZERO interest in looking at piles and piles of crap I have NO interest in, and that is precisely what happens at multi-scale shows.

 

Simon

 

 

Hi All,

 

 I suppose if your only reason to attend a train show is to see and purchase items in your own scale, then there is no reason to attend a multi-scale show.  I enjoy seeing the modular layouts and items in all scales.  I find that I can get ideas that can be used in any scale.  Some of the best layouts and ideas come from the HO and other scale groups.

 

DCC, for example, was fist developed by the NMRA HO community and then adopted for other scales.  Scenery construction techniques are the same in any scale.  Nearly every layout builder I know uses Woodland Scenics materials.

 

I also feel that the 3-rail and HO communities support the availability of O scale products.  I doubt that MTH, Weaver, Atlas, and even 3rd-Rail, would be making O scale products unless they could also sell the same basic models to the 3-rail market.  It appears to me that Atlas and Weaver have adopted many of their HO products to O scale.  

 

Therefore, for me at least, looking at items in other scales is both enjoyable and educational.

 

Joe

 

MONTREAL?????

Yeah;  It is now O Scale International.

 

Allan

Dear Marty, Joe, et al,

      I spoke to Bob Lavezzi,President of the O scale Kings tonight and he verified the 2014 O Scale National will be in Montreal. Bob stated he will have more info at the 08/10 Strasburg show. If anyone who attended the O Scale National dinner has any additional info, please feel free to contribute to this thread. 

      Please also note Bob is coordinating a effort to finally bring O Scale East to fruition with a hopeful announcement also at the Strasburg show.

      It is important to note even though The Strasburg show is primarily a 2 rail show, we always welcome our 3 rail friends, as a matter of fact, my wife, Patty, who is the gate keeper at the show, commented to both Rich and I about 25% of our participants are 3 rail modelers in search of Kadees, and other detail parts for there models and layout.

 

         Time to bone up on my French. Voila!!!!  John

                                          

OK.   Am I missing something here?  I have shipped models across the border into Canada and dealt with import duties.  I see a major hassle carrying model items across the Canadian border for sale or to display in a model contest.  Bringing models back through US Customs may also be interesting.  Please tell me I am wrong about this.  If Worcester Mass. could not draw a decent crowd from the East coast, what chance does a group from Montreal have?  I wish them all the best in their efforts but I am already sure I will not be there.

 

 

Some of you may recall our departed friend Joe G. Wondering aloud in an OST editorial about the practicality of combining the O National with the NMRA National. The responses he received, my own included, surmised the O community would get lost in the sea of HO modelers that dominate that event, to the detriment of the larger scale. I'm not intending to start an argument here, but I see that scenario as a distinct possibility.

 

This talk about a grand annual O Scale East has me wondering WHERE this would take place, to insure a consistent high turnout?

Joe,

In reply to your question "what am I missing here?" I believe the answer is the same as a line from a John Melonhead song titled Jack and Diane. The line was "you ain't missing not a thing".

 

I sure don't need to worry about a vacation conflict with next year's national convention.

Chris,

 

If you have ever gone to any of Howard Zane's shows at the Maryland State Fairgrounds in Timonium, that is exactly the way it is. Not knocking the show or Howard (a very nice man), but if you are looking for 2 rail "O" (unless things have changed radically from my last trip there) you will not see much of it.

 

Simon

Gents,

One of the reasons I often attend O Scale West are the layout tours and good friends. The first one I attended was in 1999. There were over 35 layouts open to convention attendees. Over the years more and more friends started to pass on. The trading floor has always been good and due to the fact that people have passed on, prices have dropped on a lot of brass. Also, the convention has combined with S Scalers in order to survive. People that had money to spend at one time are now on fixed incomes. At 58 I felt like a snot nosed kid there. This year will probably be my last time attending. I say all this because I wonder what O Scale East will offer that can do better than O Scale West. I don't see the amount of open houses available in the East. The same problem exist as far as age and fixed incomes. Are the organizers willing to think outside the box in order to make this endeavor survive. I would very much like to see this work because I live in the east. I think one of the reasons Strasburg works is the fact that it only lasts a few hours and everyone goes home. No hotels or air flights to worry about. And there are many things for people to buy from the expensive to the bottom end also. And like Cherry Valley's meets, it's only $5 to attend. I wish the organizers good luck with this one because they will need to do something different in order to survive and prosper.

 

Tom Mapes

The logical starting place (my opinion) would be to take a look at the last few Eastern "O Scale Nationals" and take note of the locations that were best attended, for example Parsippany, Towson, DC.

 

More opinion: Schedule it so it doesn't conflict with Chicago.

 

More opinion: Consider a Mid-size/smaller city near these locales. Less traffic and congestion, easier to get around, generally cheaper than the BIG city atmosphere.

 

Simon

I suppose it's fine to maintain a head-in-the-sand approach if you don't want to see your interests shared with current, new, and prospective hobbyists.  Adopt a second-class-citizen attitude in this widely diverse hobby and you'll likely find yourself being treated as such by manufacturers, suppliers, and your fellow hobbyists as well.

 

Although I haven't been able to attend an NMRA National for a few years now, I would like to think that O scale is still being represented at those events.  In the nationals I have attended, I was able to tour some extremely fine O scale layouts, the very first being the layout built by the late, great John Armstrong.  Yes, HO dominates that event because HO dominates the hobby and has for decades.  That is not going to change, but it's certainly no excuse for failing to display--proudly--the banners for the many other scales.

I've been attending Nationals since Cleveland in '83, often with a table or two.  Whether or not I go in any given year almost always depends on three things:  Location, location, location.  I want to be able to drive there, so Chicago/DC/New Haven [ as examples ] all work;  Worchester or Montreal don't.  [ Toronto would, but not as a 'vendor' -- I agree about customs. ]  For an 0 Scale East, I think good road access from a variety of directions would be a help;  I think a location like Strasburg is great, and I always thought Harrisburg would be a good location, given its road network;  farther east than those, and accomodation [ and everything else ] price/quality/availability suffer -- I wouldn't be too wild about northern New Jersey, for example.

 

I'd like to further suggest that the show be in the late spring or early fall, to avoid or at least reduce the possibility of snow or freezing weather, although summer is acceptable.

 

Finally, I think the Cleveland show should be the model, not a National or OSW [ and yes, I did fly out to San Jose one time just to attend an OSW --  a little more than 30 miles away....].

 

Best regards, SZ

 

PS I obviously won't be going to Montreal.  It's a great city, been there on business, including trade shows, as well as just for fun [ and a little railfanning, of course ];  it's just not the best location for a National, in my opinion.

 

PPS  I forgot:  There was an 0 National in Harrisburg -- well, Hershey, same thing.

I was reminded of this by Mr Miller's post above, which appeared as I was composing mine;  John Armstrong autographed my program while we were on the Enola tour.

 

     Question for Allan Miller:  Which 0 Nationals have you attended, and what was your opinion of them ? 

Joe,

 

If that's your cup o' tea, do your thing, but I can find all that stuff via other venues like: You tube, forums, discussion lists, magazines, etcetera at way less expense.

 

What I really like about shows is being able to buy/sell where I can SEE what I am getting up close and I don't have to package and ship stuff I sell.

 

Simon