O scale or not

Well, you provided nothing useful that would help us help you.

Pictures, exact product number from the box, etc. would be a good start.

Generally speaking, Lionel rolling stock is only “scale” if it says “Standard O” or if it was in a catalog and listed as a scale item.

Boxcars do vary greatly in size. A modern 60’ hi-cube will absolutely dwarf a USRA single sheathed boxcar.

I suspect that what you have is a "semi-scale" car. Sometimes called "traditional".

Scale of cars?  Both are 1:48. 

I hear you on the confusion surrounding O scale when you first get started. My initial introduction to O scale was Lionel and MTH starter sets which tended to be what I came to understand as "traditional" in size, albeit slightly smaller than 1:48. I purchased a lot of Christmas and holiday trains/rolling stock most of which tend to be less than or near scale in size. Once I became interested in historic rail lines, I began to seek out only "standard" O scale (1:48) items. Before buying anything from eBay or any seller really, I do a Google search on the manufacture number to get a description including original cost, year produced, scale, size, etc. As was mentioned in another post, Lionel usually will indicate true scale items as "Standard" while MTH has a Premier line (20-xxxxx) that is scale. Some MTH Rail King items are scale (30-xxxxx) but most are not. I think Atlas and Weaver are both scale, and K-Line produced both traditional and standard scale. I read on this forum that K-Line yellow and black boxes with O Scale printed on the corner are scale items, but I can't swear to that. Seems accurate based on what I've purchased to date. Anyhow, I wouldn't rely on eBay 1:48 scale field as that is just a drop down box for a seller to fill in and isn't a field validated against manufacturer's specs.

@Maxandy posted:

Hello - I just received an "o Scale" Lionel freight car. It comes in an orange Lionel box. It looks too small to be a 1/48 scale frieght car. It looks small when I put it next to my newly acquired MTH Premier Trainmaster.  I purchased this one from eBay advertised as 1/48. It just does not look it. Maybe it really is 1/48 and box cars varied greatly in size. I only want to acquire 1/48 scale. Is there a way to make sure I receive only 1/48 scale? Is there something I can check on the car to verify if its O27 or true 1/48? My dumb self keeps buying but I'm not happy with the variation in size. Many thanks for any guidance,

Well there is no longer any truth in advertising.   It depends what you are trying to model .   American 0 scale  is 1/48th proportions  !/14 ' to the foot .  Be it standard or narrow gauge the scale is the same .  ( see the post , 2 Before mine,  showing an Narrow gauge ? cattle car, and a more modern box car, both are 0 scale).   As far as track gauge , the accepted and most common  5' gauge 1 1/4 " . With fine scale modelers using Proto 48 standards or 4' 8 1/2' gauge track.  ( Narrow Gauge depending on the prototype rail road )  Track is  normally 2 rail, on scale size ties .  Rail size varies  but for the most part, the track is installed  to prototypical standards.   Wheel sets have  electrically insulated axels as to operate on 2 rail track and flanges are a scale size.  Couplers , whether you use KD's , solid , or working knuckle , or link and pin are all scale sized.     Thats 2 rail  0 scale !    O gauge three rail, is more of a  free for all !       It encompasses any thing that runs on 3 rail track!      You have to  get a handle  on what you want to do, what time period, what equipment , 2 or 3 rail , how much space you have.  I may not even be the right scale for you.     look around the pics and videos  , 2 rail and 3 rail and see what is being done

Look up the length, height, and width of the prototype car and measure the model.  As @Dave Koehler mentioned above, 1/4" to the foot is commonly accepted as O scale, so a 40' car would be 10" long. 

Just to further complicate matters, there was a time when 17/64" to the foot was used for O scale - but it's difficult to spot the difference unless the models are side by side.  And let's not even talk about the multiple ratios of British O...

Sounds like traditional or 0-27 but a photo would really help us out.

@Mallard4468 posted:

Look up the length, height, and width of the prototype car and measure the model.  As @Dave Koehler mentioned above, 1/4" to the foot is commonly accepted as O scale, so a 40' car would be 10" long.

Yup!  What's on the outside of a box can't be trusted to accurate.

Even "40 ft boxcar" is not exact.    I think most RRs considered the inside dimension when calling it a 40 ft car, so the outside length might as much as 42 ft.    And generally any length spec does not include  couplers.     On the other hand, some RRs I think had cars that were 40 ft long outside dimensions.

An idea to consider is that most prototype standard gauge cars were about 10 feet wide to 10 1/2 feet wide.    So a good clue to whether a car is scale or not is to measure the width and see if it is about 2 1/2 inches give or take a little depending on car.    Freight car lengths varied all over the place from 34-36 ft on steam era 2-bay hoppers to 60-70 ft mill gondolas.     Cars generally could not much wider because of the clearances along the track for platforms, signals and other stuff.  

Of course the best solution, in my opinion, is to have an equipment diagram of the prototype car with the major dimensions then convert those to inches (1/4 inch to the foot) and check against the "model"    You could use a construction drawing also, but they are usually much more detailed and hard to read.    Usually equipment diagrams have such dimensions as distance between truck centers, overall length and width, height above railhead and some others.  

I like to judge scale by width. Unfortunately absolutely no internet seller lists the width. To be true 1/4" scale the width of a typical boxcar should be in the range of 2-3/8" to 2-1/2". The traditional Lionel boxcars are down around 2" to 2-1/8" wide. This is still good but they should not be next to a true 1/4" boxcar. Then there is something that is totally crazy with a width of only 1-7/8"... some were made by Lionel. An example is X6014 made from 1951 to 1956. It is true "S" gauge with "O" gauge trucks. Greenberg's says it may be worth $4, but in my opinion, it is worthless unless you replace the trucks and run it with American Flyer trains.

A lot of sellers on ebay have no clue as to the size of the train they are selling.  O 'scale' brings the most money so O 'scale' it is.

I am most amused by the people selling steam engines and placing the tender on backwards.  I never buy from them.

Online sellers often mix O gage vs. O scale.   As everyone said, it takes care to be sure.  My first lesson in all this was when I was 6 and couldn't figure out why the O27 track in my left hand wouldn't work with the O style track in my right hand.

My K-line big-boy steam engine is scale, O gage, but not 1/48 scale.  I knew that when I bought it to run on O36 track. I think it is 1/52 or 1/56 on O gauge wheels.  It is what was done to get it to run on tighter curves.  Scale big-boys need a much larger turn radius.  Many of the older lionel O27 cars, example the 6014-6050 series, look good with my smaller than 1/48 scale bigboy since they tend to be closer to it's scale.

I do have some of the K-Line Scale 1/48 old style reefers.   They look great.    But the couplers and wheels are 3 rail, not scale.  There were instructions with them on how to change them to scale 2 rail wheels and body mounted couplers.   

Some Lionel cars were listed as semi-scale.  To me the body was scale or near scale, but the coupler and wheels were 3 rail.   Others use it to mean anything not to scale.   

Part of the solution is to be in the hobby a long time. You develop a feel for it, from the brand, product line, advertising style and price. Also, as mentioned, the real things vary a lot in size. There really were 36' freight cars at one time. Width, however, tends to be a constant in the real RR world.

Also, if you are a rail fan (and how could you not be?), as I am, your knowledge of the real thing helps develop your model spidey-sense. None of the companies are trying to lie to you about items, but sloppiness in advertising, which has at times been done by people who are about as RR- and model-wise as stamp collectors (no offense to anyone), can bite you.

Atlas and Weaver produce(d) only 1:48 scale items. (Exception: the Atlas "Industrial Rail" line items were sub-scale products, and clearly marketed as such. This line may be defunct.)

@Maxandy posted:

Hello - I just received an "o Scale" Lionel freight car. It comes in an orange Lionel box. It looks too small to be a 1/48 scale frieght car. It looks small when I put it next to my newly acquired MTH Premier Trainmaster.  I purchased this one from eBay advertised as 1/48. It just does not look it. Maybe it really is 1/48 and box cars varied greatly in size. I only want to acquire 1/48 scale. Is there a way to make sure I receive only 1/48 scale? Is there something I can check on the car to verify if its O27 or true 1/48? My dumb self keeps buying but I'm not happy with the variation in size. Many thanks for any guidance,

I am only 2 years into O coming from HO and share your dilema.  2R items are almost always 1:48.  3R as mentioned previously are all over the place.

I only buy used, and mainly off the internet.  I model Transition Era.   I decided the easiest (safest?) was to confine myself to the brands that only made 1:48 items (see freight cars list).  Here is what I buy.

Freight cars: Weaver, CMP (which eventually was bought out by Weaver) Intermountain, Atlas, Athearn.

Passenger Cars:  K-Line Aluminum (4600 series) In most cases should be 21" if you want scale length.

K-Line Heavyweight (4400 series) these are 18", so you decide if they are scale or not.

BTW none of these are truly accurate to scale.  If you want that, need to buy Atlas or GGD/3rd Rail.

Steam Locos: Weaver (Brass or Diecast)

Williams (Brass ONLY), be careful here!  Later Williams by Bachmann die cast are not even close!

K-Line (Die Cast) Yellow and Black Box that actually say 1:48.

Diesel Locos: Weaver (Plastic) I don't like the chain drive units, I like the dual motor ones.

K-Line (Plastic) Yellow and Black Box that actually say 1:48.

Note if you want MTH or Lionel follow the advice of others outlined above. I have bought some, but always look-up by item number for Exactly what I am buying, or ask on the forum first.

Have not made a mistake YET.

Hope this helps!

Everything done by 3rd Rail, Golden Gate Depot, or sold under the Sunset brand is 1:48 O scale unless it is specifically called out as HO.

Having said that, I will say nothing substitutes for knowing your prototype.  If scale is important to you do the research and make sure the models you are buying are accurate.  From my personal experience some models are more important than others to be extremely accurate.  Some I can live with less than perfection, but as least I do it knowingly. 

I understand that it is often difficult to do so online with some manufacturers.  Never hurts to ask the right questions.  Car width is a great start as others have mentioned. 

Part of what is confusing is that prototype cars WERE getting larger over time- mainly length and height (width was more of a constant as mentioned above due to side clearances).   Passenger cars are and have been far longer than freight cars.  So, it is best to pick an era- with the shortest freight cars being in the 1940s and early 1950's.  Once you get toward the late 1950's, passenger travel became less common.  At the same time, freight cars got longer to carry more revenue freight.

A current AMTRAK passenger car is 85 feet (21.25 In. in 1/48 Scale).  Model "O Gauge"  passenger cars were/are sold in lengths as "Shorties" 15", and 16", and later, 18".  An 18" - 22" model passenger car (even if it might RUN through turns and switches) has a lot of overhang on much smaller than an O72 turn.  Add in any kind of an "S" turn where any types of model cars go left then right and they are likely to derail if anything much longer than an actual 16".

Boxcars in 1950 (transition era) were a mix of 40' (10" long in 1/48) with some in 50' (12.5" in 1/48).  "Modern" boxcars (per CSX website) vary from 50' (12.5" long in 1/48) to 60' (15") in standard AND "Hi Roof" designs,  and even 86 foot ( 21.5" in 1/48).

Basic decisions we have to make: do we only accept "scale"?  Then if that is the case, how much ROOM do we have for a layout?  Only then can we choose the scale we model.  We likely have to stick to N or even Z, unless we have a lot of room.

Minimum prototype turns, low speed, are 288 feet, mainline is much greater. HO in actual scale would demand turns of a 40" radius.  A 288 foot radius on 1/48 means O72 turns.  An oval using 072 has a track center of 12 feet on the turns, PLUS at least a 4" outside clearance.  So, near 13 feet PLUS access on both sides.

So- we make compromises and use what visually looks OK (a lot like accepting three-rail vs. 2 rail track.)  And we use smaller scale stuff in certain places (try to model a full size steel mill in O Scale!).  It becomes more art than science.

Boxcar Specifications (CSX)

@GG1 4877 posted:

Having said that, I will say nothing substitutes for knowing your prototype.  If scale is important to you do the research and make sure the models you are buying are accurate.

Agreed!  Know the prototype and its dimensions.    

From my personal experience some models are more important than others to be extremely accurate.  Some I can live with less than perfection, but as least I do it knowingly.

Well, some models are otherwise beyond cost or beyond being produced at all - compromises abound.  Knowing that they are so can be important.

I understand that it is often difficult to do so online with some manufacturers.  Never hurts to ask the right questions.  Car width is a great start as others have mentioned.

Width is interesting.  Not a absolute nor is length particularly as applied to passenger car length - scale length is all over the place and not any set proscribed number. Check the prototype!  Though, I have been known to make use of narrower Rail King cars to make traction freight cars since traction cars were frequently narrower than standard freight cars.  Again, knowing the prototype helps.

All - Thanks  for your response to the question. Sorry for my delayed response. It seems when I get around the grandkids there is always something to catch i.e. virus, cold, flu, etc. I think in the end with 3 rail O, regardless of scale its a matter of the final look and how you can blend it all together. I came from HO where scale is not an issue for the most part. I really like and will adopt the idea of getting measurements and comparing between the model and the real size. I wil be running a large coal train, a passenger train and a frieght train. Its important to me to have those trains use similar size cars. HO seems tiny to me now as I have fallen in love with the size and heft of O scale. Once again, sorry for the delay as I'm getting back on my feet. Kind Regards......

Lionel 6-17xxx and 6-27xxx indicate O scale cars.  Outside of this, Lionel did not have a consistent numbering scheme to indicate scale vs traditional.  It took me a number of years to visually identify O scale cars and engines with some mistakes along the way.  

More discussion on this topic here.

Bob

Thanks Bob. I'll take a look at your link

Still no photo of the car that started this discussion?

Maxandy, if you want to have your actual question answered definitively, you'll have to show the car, and, hopefully, the box it came in.

Will do Tom. Feeling better today so I will be posting a picture. Thanks

The dimensions are as follows:

Length 9.5 inches   Width 2 1/8 inch

Maxandy, the term O scale has different meanings in the broader community.  Don't expect that others are using it as defined by the NMRA.  If you are only interested in acquiring models that are 1:48 of the prototypes you need to know the specific models rather than relying on the use of the term O scale.  Unless the prototype for your model was less than 40 feet long then the model is not 1:48.

Thanks Bill. I will look up the CNJ roster with frieght car specs and see what I can find

The photo shows a Lionel 6-1704 "traditional" boxcar.  This car is the same size as Lionel's 6464 boxcar series produced during the 1950's and 60's.  It is not a scale model of anything and is smaller than a 1/48 model of the real boxcar would be.

Thanks for the picture.  Yes, this is the MPC era of Lionel and based on the 6464 car sizes.  I have two of these cars that I run with a Railking CNJ Pacific along with some 15" CNJ heavyweight coaches.  Not 1:48 scale, but all in proportion with each other and picked up during my earlier days in O scale.

The prototype this is based on is a Pullman Standard PS-1 boxcar.  Some got painted in the passenger colors for express service on CNJ trains.  I have 4 scale versions, two are Weaver and two are Atlas Trainman.  Both decent renditions of the car, but interestingly enough not the same even though they both represent the same prototype.

Photos taken a long time ago showing 3 variations on the same car.  I apologize for the poor quality of the images The express one is a Weaver, the heavily weathered one is an All Nation/Athearn car, and the more modern Coast Guard paint scheme is an Atlas Trainman.

I have since converted all my CNJ scale cars to Kadee couplers and next time I get to them, I will be swapping out the wheelsets for 2 rail operation.

As a follow up to my previous post, I generally stay away from Lionel, K-Line, or MTH cars with a 30-XXXXX number unless I can see the car in person.  I've also purchased what I thought were scale cars off that auction site and have been disappointed that the car wasn't described better.

All the manufacturers make decent quality products, that is not the issue.  I just find that some manufacturers are clearer on what is considered 1:48 scale and what is not.  Of course, after 20 years of collecting I have enough freight cars to rival most real life shortlines and even a few class I's. 

Maxandy, the Lionel 7404 is a "traditionally" sized "0 gauge" box car and is most definitely not scale. Coming from HO scale, I can see how you could get confused. Just because a product is 0 gauge, doesn't mean it will be 0 scale.

For the majority of years in the history of Lionel, their products (with a few exceptions) were mostly NOT scale. It some cases, pretty close to scale, but still not true scale. This scale thing in 0 gauge didn't really start taking off until the advent of TMCC. Further made possible as companies moved production overseas (Lionel and K-Line) where the lower production costs enabled them to invest more dollars into brand new expensive tooling (MTH was always overseas).

Unlike Lionel, MTH has always used a numbering pre-fix designation: "20-" for their Premiere scale products, "33-" for their smaller Rugged Rails products which are like Lionel traditionally sized trains, and "30-" for their Railking trains, which originally larger than traditional but not full scale. But then they started moving some of their original (but less detailed) scale tooling into the Railking line. So some items under the Railking banner are true scale proportions, but others are not.

I come at all of this from the opposite angle: I'm an 027 guy and DO NOT want true scale proportioned trains. I have an advantage here as I have been in the hobby for years, so I have some idea what I am looking for. But it's still confusing at times. The "0 gauge" term is kind of a one-size-fits-all phrase, since everything whether it's 027, traditional 0, or the newer 3-rail scale trains will run on 0 gauge track. Then you go to an auction site (or even YouTube) and you'll see the phrase "0 scale" used for 027 trains. Or "0 gauge" trains used for the newer scale sized trains. As Mike Wyatt described above, there are some practical reasons for all this compression of scale in 0 gauge.

Hate to say this, but if scale fidelity is your thing, it would have been easier to stick with HO where there's not a toy train past or history in the same way there is for Lionel. And HO alone is around 65-70% of the entire train hobby market.

0 has never been over around 5% of the market and that includes tinplate, 027, traditional 0 gauge, scale 0 gauge, and true 2-rail 0 scale. Then to make it more confusing you have 3-rail scale operators who stick with the traditional 0 gauge "lobster claw" coupler and those who change them over to scale Kadee type couplers. Of all the train scales, we are the most divided or fragmented of all.

@brianel_k-lineguy posted:

Maxandy, the Lionel 7404 is a "traditionally" sized "0 gauge" box car and is most definitely not scale. Coming from HO scale, I can see how you could get confused. Just because a product is 0 gauge, doesn't mean it will be 0 scale.

For the majority of years in the history of Lionel, their products (with a few exceptions) were mostly NOT scale. It some cases, pretty close to scale, but still not true scale. This scale thing in 0 gauge didn't really start taking off until the advent of TMCC. Further made possible as companies moved production overseas (Lionel and K-Line) where the lower production costs enabled them to invest more dollars into brand new expensive tooling (MTH was always overseas).

Unlike Lionel, MTH has always used a numbering pre-fix designation: "20-" for their Premiere scale products, "33-" for their smaller Rugged Rails products which are like Lionel traditionally sized trains, and "30-" for their Railking trains, which originally larger than traditional but not full scale. But then they started moving some of their original (but less detailed) scale tooling into the Railking line. So some items under the Railking banner are true scale proportions, but others are not.

I come at all of this from the opposite angle: I'm an 027 guy and DO NOT want true scale proportioned trains. I have an advantage here as I have been in the hobby for years, so I have some idea what I am looking for. But it's still confusing at times. The "0 gauge" term is kind of a one-size-fits-all phrase, since everything whether it's 027, traditional 0, or the newer 3-rail scale trains will run on 0 gauge track. Then you go to an auction site (or even YouTube) and you'll see the phrase "0 scale" used for 027 trains. Or "0 gauge" trains used for the newer scale sized trains. As Mike Wyatt described above, there are some practical reasons for all this compression of scale in 0 gauge.

Hate to say this, but if scale fidelity is your thing, it would have been easier to stick with HO where there's not a toy train past or history in the same way there is for Lionel. And HO alone is around 65-70% of the entire train hobby market.

0 has never been over around 5% of the market and that includes tinplate, 027, traditional 0 gauge, scale 0 gauge, and true 2-rail 0 scale. Then to make it more confusing you have 3-rail scale operators who stick with the traditional 0 gauge "lobster claw" coupler and those who change them over to scale Kadee type couplers. Of all the train scales, we are the most divided or fragmented of all.

Thanks Brian. I know sticking with HO would have eliminated this discussion/issue but I really like the O Scale size. I also was inspired by Mr Muffin and Norm's Trains that O Scale could be modeled with craftman like quality and realistic scenary.

@brianel_k-lineguy posted:

Maxandy, the Lionel 7404 is a "traditionally" sized "0 gauge" box car and is most definitely not scale. Coming from HO scale, I can see how you could get confused. Just because a product is 0 gauge, doesn't mean it will be 0 scale.

For the majority of years in the history of Lionel, their products (with a few exceptions) were mostly NOT scale. It some cases, pretty close to scale, but still not true scale. This scale thing in 0 gauge didn't really start taking off until the advent of TMCC. Further made possible as companies moved production overseas (Lionel and K-Line) where the lower production costs enabled them to invest more dollars into brand new expensive tooling (MTH was always overseas).

Unlike Lionel, MTH has always used a numbering pre-fix designation: "20-" for their Premiere scale products, "33-" for their smaller Rugged Rails products which are like Lionel traditionally sized trains, and "30-" for their Railking trains, which originally larger than traditional but not full scale. But then they started moving some of their original (but less detailed) scale tooling into the Railking line. So some items under the Railking banner are true scale proportions, but others are not.

I come at all of this from the opposite angle: I'm an 027 guy and DO NOT want true scale proportioned trains. I have an advantage here as I have been in the hobby for years, so I have some idea what I am looking for. But it's still confusing at times. The "0 gauge" term is kind of a one-size-fits-all phrase, since everything whether it's 027, traditional 0, or the newer 3-rail scale trains will run on 0 gauge track. Then you go to an auction site (or even YouTube) and you'll see the phrase "0 scale" used for 027 trains. Or "0 gauge" trains used for the newer scale sized trains. As Mike Wyatt described above, there are some practical reasons for all this compression of scale in 0 gauge.

Hate to say this, but if scale fidelity is your thing, it would have been easier to stick with HO where there's not a toy train past or history in the same way there is for Lionel. And HO alone is around 65-70% of the entire train hobby market.

0 has never been over around 5% of the market and that includes tinplate, 027, traditional 0 gauge, scale 0 gauge, and true 2-rail 0 scale. Then to make it more confusing you have 3-rail scale operators who stick with the traditional 0 gauge "lobster claw" coupler and those who change them over to scale Kadee type couplers. Of all the train scales, we are the most divided or fragmented of all.

Thanks Brian. I would have loved to run with two rail O but that seems to have even less selection and higher cost than 3 Rail.

@Maxandy posted:

Thanks Brian. I know sticking with HO would have eliminated this discussion/issue but I really like the O Scale size. I also was inspired by Mr Muffin and Norm's Trains that O Scale could be modeled with craftman like quality and realistic scenary.

Have fun modeling with O gauge!

@GG1 4877 posted:

As a follow up to my previous post, I generally stay away from Lionel, K-Line, or MTH cars with a 30-XXXXX number unless I can see the car in person.  I've also purchased what I thought were scale cars off that auction site and have been disappointed that the car wasn't described better.

All the manufacturers make decent quality products, that is not the issue.  I just find that some manufacturers are clearer on what is considered 1:48 scale and what is not.  Of course, after 20 years of collecting I have enough freight cars to rival most real life shortlines and even a few class I's. 

@Mike Wyatt posted:

Part of what is confusing is that prototype cars WERE getting larger over time- mainly length and height (width was more of a constant as mentioned above due to side clearances).   Passenger cars are and have been far longer than freight cars.  So, it is best to pick an era- with the shortest freight cars being in the 1940s and early 1950's.  Once you get toward the late 1950's, passenger travel became less common.  At the same time, freight cars got longer to carry more revenue freight.

A current AMTRAK passenger car is 85 feet (21.25 In. in 1/48 Scale).  Model "O Gauge"  passenger cars were/are sold in lengths as "Shorties" 15", and 16", and later, 18".  An 18" - 22" model passenger car (even if it might RUN through turns and switches) has a lot of overhang on much smaller than an O72 turn.  Add in any kind of an "S" turn where any types of model cars go left then right and they are likely to derail if anything much longer than an actual 16".

Boxcars in 1950 (transition era) were a mix of 40' (10" long in 1/48) with some in 50' (12.5" in 1/48).  "Modern" boxcars (per CSX website) vary from 50' (12.5" long in 1/48) to 60' (15") in standard AND "Hi Roof" designs,  and even 86 foot ( 21.5" in 1/48).

Basic decisions we have to make: do we only accept "scale"?  Then if that is the case, how much ROOM do we have for a layout?  Only then can we choose the scale we model.  We likely have to stick to N or even Z, unless we have a lot of room.

Minimum prototype turns, low speed, are 288 feet, mainline is much greater. HO in actual scale would demand turns of a 40" radius.  A 288 foot radius on 1/48 means O72 turns.  An oval using 072 has a track center of 12 feet on the turns, PLUS at least a 4" outside clearance.  So, near 13 feet PLUS access on both sides.

So- we make compromises and use what visually looks OK (a lot like accepting three-rail vs. 2 rail track.)  And we use smaller scale stuff in certain places (try to model a full size steel mill in O Scale!).  It becomes more art than science.

Boxcar Specifications (CSX)

	50' Standard	50' Hi-roof	60' Standard	60' Hi-roof	86' Auto
Exterior Length +couplers)	55' 5" approx 13.9" @1/48)	58' 2" 14.6"	67' 11" 17"	67' 7" 17"	93' 6" 23.4"
Exterior Width	10' 7"	10' 8"	10' 6"	10' 8"	10' 8"
Freight Capacity	70 - 100 tons	100 tons	70 - 100 tons	100 tons	70 tons

Mike - Thanks for the data that you provided. I'm getting an education.

@MainLine Steam posted:

I am only 2 years into O coming from HO and share your dilema.  2R items are almost always 1:48.  3R as mentioned previously are all over the place.

I only buy used, and mainly off the internet.  I model Transition Era.   I decided the easiest (safest?) was to confine myself to the brands that only made 1:48 items (see freight cars list).  Here is what I buy.

Freight cars: Weaver, CMP (which eventually was bought out by Weaver) Intermountain, Atlas, Athearn.

Passenger Cars:  K-Line Aluminum (4600 series) In most cases should be 21" if you want scale length.

K-Line Heavyweight (4400 series) these are 18", so you decide if they are scale or not.

BTW none of these are truly accurate to scale.  If you want that, need to buy Atlas or GGD/3rd Rail.

Steam Locos: Weaver (Brass or Diecast)

Williams (Brass ONLY), be careful here!  Later Williams by Bachmann die cast are not even close!

K-Line (Die Cast) Yellow and Black Box that actually say 1:48.

Diesel Locos: Weaver (Plastic) I don't like the chain drive units, I like the dual motor ones.

K-Line (Plastic) Yellow and Black Box that actually say 1:48.

Note if you want MTH or Lionel follow the advice of others outlined above. I have bought some, but always look-up by item number for Exactly what I am buying, or ask on the forum first.

Have not made a mistake YET.

Hope this helps!

This was a huge help.  Thanks for this information.

Maxandy, I'm glad you took my HO comment in the light I meant it. You're not the only one to switch because of the larger size (sometimes because of failing eyesight), the newer digital technology and the more recent scale proportioned trains.

Here's a link to an older thread which you may also find helpful. Especially the boxcar photos towards the bottom on the first page of that thread. There's a shot of 5 boxcars in a row: Your 7404 is like the Pennsy one in the middle. The first two on the right are what I like, but then there are folks who only want one like the last one on the left.

As I said, we are a diverse group of modelers when it comes to scale, and those boxcar photos illustrate that point quite clearly.

https://ogrforum.com/...cale-vs-gauge?page=1

@Maxandy posted:

All - Thanks  for your response to the question. Sorry for my delayed response. It seems when I get around the grandkids there is always something to catch i.e. virus, cold, flu, etc. I think in the end with 3 rail O, regardless of scale its a matter of the final look and how you can blend it all together. I came from HO where scale is not an issue for the most part. I really like and will adopt the idea of getting measurements and comparing between the model and the real size. I wil be running a large coal train, a passenger train and a frieght train. Its important to me to have those trains use similar size cars. HO seems tiny to me now as I have fallen in love with the size and heft of O scale. Once again, sorry for the delay as I'm getting back on my feet. Kind Regards......

Thanks for letting me know my prior post was helpful.  After reading you also are coming from HO wanted to add a little more.

When in HO I had mainly Athearn yellow / blue box.  The Weaver freight cars are kinda the O scale equivalents.

With K-Line passenger cars, I like the 18" versions actually more than the 21" because they look right to me.  I truly think it is because after 60 years I got use to thinking that those were the correct proportions for a streamlined car (based on the Athearns).

So my recommendations are based on the "Athearn level of accuracy".  Of course to look decent at the larger scale they are more detailed.

If you want to be absolutely true to prototype, you need to spend more money for GGD/3rd, Atlas, or even the limited production brands.  Lionel and MTH also made/make some accurate items, but again beware!  It all gets down to how important scale accuracy is to you vs cost.

The interesting thing to me since getting into O is how wide the range of available products is.

If you find yourself with the occasional non-scale car don't worry. I've found that semi-scale cars are great for scenery. Unless you decide to kit bash everything, finding perfectly scale buildings is almost impossible. I like to use semi-scale cars for abandoned lines, wrecks, or even art displays in a city center.

I also have a semi-scale train I put around the Christmas tree. I don't like pine needles and cats attacking expensive equipment.

@MainLine Steam posted:

Thanks for letting me know my prior post was helpful.  After reading you also are coming from HO wanted to add a little more.

When in HO I had mainly Athearn yellow / blue box.  The Weaver freight cars are kinda the O scale equivalents.

With K-Line passenger cars, I like the 18" versions actually more than the 21" because they look right to me.  I truly think it is because after 60 years I got use to thinking that those were the correct proportions for a streamlined car (based on the Athearns).

So my recommendations are based on the "Athearn level of accuracy".  Of course to look decent at the larger scale they are more detailed.

If you want to be absolutely true to prototype, you need to spend more money for GGD/3rd, Atlas, or even the limited production brands.  Lionel and MTH also made/make some accurate items, but again beware!  It all gets down to how important scale accuracy is to you vs cost.

The interesting thing to me since getting into O is how wide the range of available products is.

Its a good question on how much I want prototype scale. My objective will be to stay as close as I can to 1/48. I'm sure there will be deviations on my layout but another hope of mine is that when it gets all blended together the final look is pleasing.  I have never been to an O Scale meet and I look forward to saving my coin and heading to York. I'll bet I can find what I'm looking for. Thanks Again.