O27 recomendations?

You might want to consider the Lionel Dockside Switcher. A great little engine. They haven't made them for awhile, but you can find them on Ebay.....often for real good prices.

Roger

Welcome to the forum!

A couple of things you can do; first buy a low price engine or second go with a wider radius curve in 027 profile like 042 curves in 027 track height or half curves with a half straight in between them will open up the curve size.

Lee Fritz

Welcome! 

I would also second the recommendation to use wider curves. Not only will your trains perform better but it will also open up options, as you mentioned, for other locomotives and rolling stock. 

The Lionel O-27 track (brown tie) has 0-42 which will comfortably fit on a 4x8 table. The Lionel O Gauge tubular track (black tie) as 0-31 and 0-42 curves. I use both on my layout. Nearly all Lionel LionChief and Conventional and MTH Railking, as well as Williams trains will operate on 0-31 and 0-42 so you'll have a lot to choose from.  

Stick with AC trains - I'd recommend going for an MTH Z-1000 transformer. They are top notch quality and will last for years (I've got several, ranging from a few years old to about 15 years old, never a problem). I would also recommend sticking with a local authorized dealer and hobby shop. Not only will you support a local business but you'll have a place to return time and time again for new items, advice, repairs, etc. 

You can do a lot with a 4x8...here is a photo of my layout. The outer loop is 0-42 (using brown tie 027 Tubular) and the inner loop and upper loop is 0-31 (using Black tie O Gauge Tubular). I also use Ross switches and 0-27 brown tie track for my two Bump-'n-go trolleys and storage tracks. 

Have fun - it is a wonderful hobby! 

There's some good advice above. If you're on a very limited budget as you said above, hang onto your O27 straight track and buy some wider curves. I use O27 tubular track with 54", 42" and 34" curves (the 34" isn't made any longer but you can occasionally find some). 

I don't have any experience with new LionChief system other than a Thomas the Tank Engine set. It has worked well. Sorry to hear about your difficulties.

If you're a value shopper, I'd suggest two options. If you can go with conventional operation without sounds or command control, you can find Williams or Williams by Bachmann engines for $150-$200 and sets for around $300. Check some of the forum sponsors websites.  Historically good quality.

Since the introduction of LionChief and LionChief Plus technology, I've noticed a drop in price of Lionel traditional-sized conventional engines including those with sounds but not command control.  Heck, you might even find one with command control for $150-$200 (again, not the LionChief Plus or Legacy, just the older TMCC).  You can run it conventionally which will still give you nice sounds.

Lots of options these days for us value shoppers.

Another solution is to use Gargraves 032 curves with 027 track, the Gargraves track just needs adapter pins to go to 027 track. Gargraves track is about the same height as 027 track so no shimming is needed.

Lee Fritz

The best track you can buy within  your $200 budget is O-31 tubular track.  I have bought it at train shows for 50 cents to $1 a section depending on condition.  I have bought about 150 022 switches for less than $10 each.  Most had controllers.  With your $200 budget, I don't know why anyone would suggest anything else.  All of Lionel's post war locos will run on O-31 track and switches.  This includes the 736 locos which will not navigate O-27 switches.  I wrote a long thread on restoring 022 switches:  022/711 switch operating pblms.  Look for it with Google.  Any genuine 022 switches will need restoration even if they are new in the box.  You can buy wider radius track:  O-42, O-54, O-72 that mates with the original O-31.  I have bought a lot of American Flyer prewar O-40 track and switches.  I have bought the switches as cheap as $25 for 15.  I have converted them to fixed voltage and added a non-derailing feature.  Lionel does not make O-42 switches.  At least one other company makes O-42 switches, but they are not cheap.  Any other choice of track and switches is going to be much more expensive than Lionel or AF tubular track.  BTW, American Flyer also made O-31 track, so if you buy AF track, make sure it is O-40.  The O-40 track has holes in the outer ends of the ties.

Well it seems I have some decisions to make. Sorry it took so long to get back on here. My internet was down last night. I was unaware that I could buy brown tie 42 curves. I'm not aware of any train stores in my immediate area. (an hour north of Columbus OH). I haven't had much time lately to drive very far. The only problem I can see with larger curves is that my four turnouts are still 27. If the layout was just for me, I'd just get some 42" curves to make a plain oval. But since this is more for my kids, I kind of want some switches and stuff to keep their interest. I've also been thinking about just buying an e unit for the switcher that I have. Then I would just need a basic transformer that has a reverse button. But even by doing so, by the time I order an e-unit, buy a soldering gun, flux, solder, and a transformer, I may be money ahead just to buy a used set that has what I need in it. Oh, the dilemmas! I've also been eying a Nickel Plate Special O27 set. On a side note, I'm not too far from Lima Ohio, which is where my wife is from. So Lima locomotives, Nickel Plate Road, B&O, etc are extra cool in my book. Thanks to everyone for the advice thus far. Dinner is calling so I'll get back on here later and re-read through your posts. Thanks again!

I bought a Nickel Plate Junior (O27) Berkshire 2-8-4 back in 2002.  It came with RailSounds for about $200-225 at Trading Post Train Shop in Cleveland (only about an 60-90 minutes from you if you're in the Upper Sandusky-Bucyrus-Mansfield area). You can find them cheaper periodically online, but I enjoy shopping at my LHS and Trading Post in Cleveland is a great, old-fashioned shop.

It's a nice little engine if that's what you're looking at. I think that's the only Nickel Plate O27 engine Lionel has made although they made some versions with TMCC and Railsounds and others with just Railsounds.

If you buy mostly O27 capable engines, you can still use your O27 switches in your yards while using 42" curves on your mainlines.  The little O27 engines look GREAT on the broader 42" curves.  A much nice sweep.  Plus, your kids can run them faster (which they love to do) on broader curves.  Everything tips on 27" curves at some point or another.

For diesels, I'd recommend getting some O27 FA-2s.  The postwar versions were great but they were cheapened starting around 1960.  I wouldn't buy any new ones of the Lionel brand. If you want new, look at Williams or Williams by Bachmann remakes.  No sounds, but they can be had for $165 online.

Come to think of it, the Trading Post in Cleveland had the Williams Nickel Plate FA-2 diesels on their shelf collecting dust last time I was there.  Great looking O27 diesels.  Again, no sounds with Williams engines, but very reliable.  Might be worth making a call or a visit.  It's a step back in time....not much to look at from the outside. Fair prices for retail, not as good as online, but hey, the guys has overhead to cover.

Best of luck.

Hi Coltm,

I'm a bona-fide 027 operator. While there are limitations to 027 track and curves, there are advantages. One being you can have more variety in layout design within a small space. The other being it is probably the most affordable. And being you've got 3 boys, this is a consideration for certain.

With a 4'x8' foot space, you could have an outer loop of 027 track with the 42" curves, and then everything else with the typical 27" curves. Here's a great site to help you in your decision process:

http://www.thortrains.net/

Scroll down for the 0/027 pages, and click on whatever grabs your interest. There's tons of ideas. Some of the layout design pages have 3D illustrations which could help you visualize what you and your boys would like to do. Let them look too and add their input... the best way to keep their interest.

And while there are locos and cars that will not negotiate an 027 curve or clear the 027 switch box housing, there ARE many that will. And those also tend to be more affordable.

Keeping the boys interest doesn't necessarily to features or technology. Letting them be involved can do just as much, like letting them help design the layout, or figure out where buildings will be placed.

I've done low-budget layouts with kids, utilizing nylon fish line to create operating accessories, or to turn manual switches into "automatic" ones. We've taken common toys like cranes from construction sets, or conveyor belts from farm sets and turned them into railroad accessories.

As per your question of AC or DC, Lionel at one time made a button for use with their G-gauge DC powered trains, so you could run them with an AC transformer. It's basically a full-bridge rectifier with a DP/DT switch button to change direction from forward to reverse.

On the 2-4-2 Scout set. This is a basic Lionel engine, that along with the near identical 4-4-2 starter steam engine, has been a staple of the Lionel line up for over 25 years. These are kid friendly, rugged, reliable engines with parts readily available should you need them.

The LionChief versions are fairly new items. Right now there's no sound volume control - which could potentially change as LionChief progresses. Outside of the nice digital sounds, the performance is akin to the transformer version engines, but you are using the LionChief remote to operate the loco speed and direction versus using the transformer. It's a 027 friendly engine, so I'd say go for it. BUT you could also look for a older stock sealed, or a well-cared for used Lionel set with 027 track and a 4-4-2 steamer with it.

There are many Lionel engines made in the 1970's-1990's that were basic runners with no sound. K-Line also made some in this vein. They run on 027 curves and tend to be more affordable. You can add sound using the Lionel horn and whistle shed buildings, or you can add a Lionel Railsounds box car- which allows sound for everything you have at an affordable price point.

As mentioned, some of the smaller Williams locos, like their FA2, and NW2 are reliable engines that negotiate 027 curves and most have at least a diesel horn. The current production (Ready Made Trains) RMT S-4 switcher is another nice possibly, though currently out of stock at RMT. Also their Budd Car RDC "Buddy" is on sale many places. No horn, but directional headlights make this a fun, 027 friendly engine.

And though K-Line is now defunct, their FA2 is nicer than the Lionel counterpart. And their MP-15 switcher and S-2 Alco switcher are both 027 friendly engines. Some of the later made Alco FA and MP-15's came with a diesel horn sound. Search around and these locos can be found affordably (some dealers price these as "collectibles" because K-Line is out of business). Keep looking.

I have a couple MRC sound stations, which I got for under $25 each. It's a self-contained sound unit with a push button controller that has a whole variety of digital sounds. Not as nice as some of the current locomotives with synched sound, but not as expensive either. Also there's an advantage of one boy running the trains and the other boy can control the sound effects.

There's tons of ideas to keep your boys interest, and to make the layout both fun and affordable. I don't want to make this too long now, but I myself have loads of ideas and suggestions I could give you. And my ideas are coming from a guy who actually DOES run 027 and also is HAPPY doing so!!

Brian - great post. I missed mentioning the RMT switchers as great options for the O27 operator.  I haven't checked recently, but Wholesale Trains (Lanty Hobby Shop) in Horseheads NY had some last year on closeout. They appear to be about 2" shorter than the NW-2's from Lionel and Williams.

I run strictly semi-scale/O27/non-scale/traditional (whatever the going term is today). I feel like I have too many engines and too much rolling stock already yet constantly see new options I'd like to add.  There are many options out there for O27 operators despite the industry's growing emphasis on the $1,000+ intricate and scale beauties.

I would go for the mid range Lionel steamers from the 1950's, probably ones like the 2037, 2034, and the 2055. These types of steam engines form the core of my steam roster, and are usually available on fleabay and at train shows for $20-$50 in operable condition. The sets they came in are rather common as well, as I have seen boxed examples of the sets the 2034 was packed in sell for under $100. In terms of transformer, however, I would buy a few postwar 1033's, or a good old V, VW, or Z type if you can find them.

Welcome!

I would agree with El Classico. While I love my prewar steam switchers, the #2037 was the first locomotive my wife bought me in the 1990's which brought me back into the hobby.

Good luck and post pictures when you are up and running.

Tom

My first postwar engines (and projects) were actually the Marx 495 and Lionel 685. Still working on the 495, but they are beauties.

Bah! There's plenty of O27 stuff out their to have a lot of fun & keep it affordable.

I concur with the suggestion of Williams By Bachmann (WBB) diesels. Their GP-9 is another great choice & includes horn & bell. They are heavy, powerful, & seemingly well made. You can get brand new ones from Trainworld.com for $150 & less on Ebay. (I have found that switching the WBB GP-9 & K-Line MP-15 wiring from parallel to series, as described elsewhere on this site, to be a big improvement, especially if you're using track-powered switches.)

You should be able to pick up a Lionel CW-80 transformer for well under $100 on Ebay, too. It's also a great source for rolling stock & switches. Caveat: do your research, carefully examine the photos & description. Often times items are mislabeled or overpriced. Keep an eye out for the Lionel Hudson Jr.--that's another O27 steam locomotive, in addition to the Dockside Switcher previously mentioned.

For me the biggest limitations of O27 track are: 1) limited passenger car selection; 2) limited steam engine selection; 3) the Lionel 5121 & 5122 switches are usable, but lack quality. The lauded K-Line low-profile switch seem scarce.

Check the buy-sell section on this forum, lots of good buys. I found a great deal this week,

Brent

Similar to what brianel K-line guy mentions you could put a bridge rectifier(5 amp 50 volt) in the engine with DC only and run it on an AC layout.

I did that to a Williams engine because it would not start like I wanted it to, so I took out the circuit board for direction and installed a bridge rectifier in it.

Lee Fritz