O27 wiring

The transformer matters in terms of whether U goes to the center or outer rail.

Which one do you have?

John

Welcome, and you've come to the right place. There is a wide spectrum of experience and expertise here.

The 027 track is the less-expensive of the two original Lionel tracks, the other choice being 031.  031 is made of heavier metal, is taller, and in my opinion, is less desirable because it can overwhelm the rolling stock due to its height.

027 is a good choice to get started with. Connecting the power wires is easy. You can use a snap-on device called a "Lockon" which allows you to get started quickly in wiring the track and getting trains running. The Lockon has two spring clips that accept the bare end of the wires. One clip for the outside rails and one clip for the middle rail. For larger layouts, additional Lockons are wired in parallel around the track to eliminate slow spots. The steel track presents more resistance to current flow than copper wire, so extra feed points are often required.

As your layout gets more established and permanent, you might try soldering the track feeders directly to the rails, or use other methods of connections that eliminate the rather energy-wasting Lockons. But that's later on in your adventure.

The transformer that you select has nothing to do with how the track is wired. The transformers range in size from "totally inadequate" (25 Watts) up to "bigger than you'll ever need" in the 250 to 400 Watt sizes. A good starter size if you intend just to wire up and use the layout in a simple traditional way is the Lionel # 1033, or 1044. They provide enough wattage for one train and some basic accessories.

Since the operative phrase is "electric" trains, there are so many things we need to teach you: An example is the rating of transformers. You won't need this info right now, but you can add it to things you know. A transformer's rating in Watts is the INPUT rating, in other words, how much power it draws from the receptacle. It does not indicate the power available at the OUTPUT terminals.

Model 1122 switches are powered from the track that they are connected to. They require a controller, which is simply a black plastic box with lever switches and pilot lamps. You can Google for the images of the 1122 and their associated controllers.

There are many websites that have diagrams from the Lionel transformer manuals that can give you a visual of how to wire the tracks.

Let us know what transformer you have or intend to use, and a description of how you intend to set up the track and switches. We will help you avoid some pitfalls. Keep us posted and fire away with the questions.

If you want personalized help, email me at the address in my profile.

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

The transformer that you select has nothing to do with how the track is wired.

Postwar Multi-Control transformers for  multiple trains like the KW or ZW were designed to have the U terminal connected to the outside rails and outputs, A, B, etc., connected to the center rails of the tracks.

Single train transformers like the 1033 is designed to have the U terminal connected to the center rail and A or B terminal to the outside rails depending on the desired voltage.

This matters especially for whistle vs bell sounds in terms of a positive center rail for more modern locomotives.

John

Exactly correct. And we find out what transformer(s) he will be using, I'm sure that info will be very helpful.

@Phil Ertman posted:

...So my question is where can I get a book on wiring the older style layouts?

Book, HERE.

Online tutorials, HERE.

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

Welcome, and you've come to the right place. There is a wide spectrum of experience and expertise here.

The 027 track is the less-expensive of the two original Lionel tracks, the other choice being 031.  031 is made of heavier metal, is taller, and in my opinion, is less desirable because it can overwhelm the rolling stock due to its height.

027 is a good choice to get started with. Connecting the power wires is easy. You can use a snap-on device called a "Lockon" which allows you to get started quickly in wiring the track and getting trains running. The Lockon has two spring clips that accept the bare end of the wires. One clip for the outside rails and one clip for the middle rail. For larger layouts, additional Lockons are wired in parallel around the track to eliminate slow spots. The steel track presents more resistance to current flow than copper wire, so extra feed points are often required.

As your layout gets more established and permanent, you might try soldering the track feeders directly to the rails, or use other methods of connections that eliminate the rather energy-wasting Lockons. But that's later on in your adventure.

The transformer that you select has nothing to do with how the track is wired. The transformers range in size from "totally inadequate" (25 Watts) up to "bigger than you'll ever need" in the 250 to 400 Watt sizes. A good starter size if you intend just to wire up and use the layout in a simple traditional way is the Lionel # 1033, or 1044. They provide enough wattage for one train and some basic accessories.

Since the operative phrase is "electric" trains, there are so many things we need to teach you: An example is the rating of transformers. You won't need this info right now, but you can add it to things you know. A transformer's rating in Watts is the INPUT rating, in other words, how much power it draws from the receptacle. It does not indicate the power available at the OUTPUT terminals.

Model 1122 switches are powered from the track that they are connected to. They require a controller, which is simply a black plastic box with lever switches and pilot lamps. You can Google for the images of the 1122 and their associated controllers.

There are many websites that have diagrams from the Lionel transformer manuals that can give you a visual of how to wire the tracks.

Let us know what transformer you have or intend to use, and a description of how you intend to set up the track and switches. We will help you avoid some pitfalls. Keep us posted and fire away with the questions.

If you want personalized help, email me at the address in my profile.

I only have a CW-80 to run my modern Lionel trains, But I do have a brand new (old transformer) Type 4090. I have four (4) 1122 switches that I would like to use. However I do not have any insulating pins. I have heard of putting a layout together with electrical blocks to get from one area to another. I know you use the insulating pins to separate the blocks, but in the case of sing the switches I think you use them to prevent shorting the transformer. The idea was I wanted to run my 027 trains and track on the inside loop and run my flex track and modern engines on on the outside loop. (no connection between them. The 027 trains would be running on a second level. For now this is a Christmas display with the hope of setting up a permanent layout in the basement. That is where i want to use the 027 switches.

   So I was looking for a book that would show me how to wire up blocks and switches so I don't short the transformer. There used to be all kinds of them available. Now they ar unobtanium.

@ADCX Rob posted:

Book, HERE.

Online tutorials, HERE.

Thank you. I did order the book. I will watch the videos also for more info. Hopefully I did not offend anybody about the Fast Track. The Menards tube track is my preference. Now if they just made switches to. You have been a great help. Thank you! back to cleaning track. only two more moths till Christmas!

Gratefully;

Phil

There are books on toy train wiring, Kalmbach books has 1 or 2 of them I believe (or if there is a train show that features 3 rail O near you, like greenberg, they will be for sale,I can almost guarantee it).

Insulating pins in the track as you said are used to create blocks. For a simple layout where you are running only 1 train at a time, you may not even need them (usually people do block wiring when running multiple trains in conventional mode). Insulating pins are sometimes used on the outside rails when creating a 'detector track'.

In terms of switches, other than having let's say a fiber pin to separate the main route from the away route electrically, the only other reason I have seen them used is when wiring the switch for 'non derailing' (basically where if a train is coming from a spur or something and the switch is thrown the wrong way, it will cause the switch to throw in the right direction, preventing an accident).  The only other reason I can think of for using  a fiber pin is is you have one transformer powering the main route through the switch and another transformer is powering the diverging route (so a mainline, for example, has one transformer, a spur is run from another transformer). I can't think of any reason why you need fiber pins to prevent a short; with the two transformer scenario I just gave you could end up with the sum of the two voltages if the transformers aren't in phase.

You may be confusing two rail track, where a reverse loop has a big problem, where + and - can end up connected (a reverse loop is where the track on the diverging route circles back to connect to the main route, it allows an engine to change direction, it is a loop). Three rail doesn't have that problem because the outer rails are always - (ground).

Well I did google the information. But the diagram was incomplete. So I joined OGR and started asking questions. I managed to clean some more track today. I will need to rewire the switch controllers because the insulation is cracking off. I found the wire I need at Wire-Plex.  I need to find light bulbs  for the switches. One of them is missing the holder for the lamp. I did find some on Amazon. But for a Christmas layout I can leave the switches off. I am uncertain right now if I will be able to build it. I am going to re-store and looking for bi-fold wood closet doors. They are light and I can store them on the porch where the layout will be. I have a series of saw horse that I build it on. So my trains will run on the 027 inner track. My wifes Polar Express runs on the outer loop. I favor steam locomotives. If I have enough Fast Track I may try to run my Milwaukee. I wanted to thank you for your time. With luck I may get this built and send you pictures. What a wonderful goal!

@Craftech posted:

The transformer matters in terms of whether U goes to the center or outer rail.

Which one do you have?

John

Lionel Type 4090. It has the U,A,B, and C power connections. It is rated at 40 VA.

Fixed Voltages

A-B: 5 Volts

B-C: 11 Volts

A-C: 16 Volts

Variable Voltages

A-U   5-18 Volts

B-U   0-11 Volts

I have 5 CW-80 Transformers Only output is variable 0 to 18 Volts. These run the modern engines like the Polar Express and my Milwaukee.

Thank you for your time

Phil

@bigkid posted:

There are books on toy train wiring, Kalmbach books has 1 or 2 of them I believe (or if there is a train show that features 3 rail O near you, like greenberg, they will be for sale,I can almost guarantee it).

Insulating pins in the track as you said are used to create blocks. For a simple layout where you are running only 1 train at a time, you may not even need them (usually people do block wiring when running multiple trains in conventional mode). Insulating pins are sometimes used on the outside rails when creating a 'detector track'.

In terms of switches, other than having let's say a fiber pin to separate the main route from the away route electrically, the only other reason I have seen them used is when wiring the switch for 'non derailing' (basically where if a train is coming from a spur or something and the switch is thrown the wrong way, it will cause the switch to throw in the right direction, preventing an accident).  The only other reason I can think of for using  a fiber pin is is you have one transformer powering the main route through the switch and another transformer is powering the diverging route (so a mainline, for example, has one transformer, a spur is run from another transformer). I can't think of any reason why you need fiber pins to prevent a short; with the two transformer scenario I just gave you could end up with the sum of the two voltages if the transformers aren't in phase.

You may be confusing two rail track, where a reverse loop has a big problem, where + and - can end up connected (a reverse loop is where the track on the diverging route circles back to connect to the main route, it allows an engine to change direction, it is a loop). Three rail doesn't have that problem because the outer rails are always - (ground).

I did order a book from AMAZON on Lionel track wiring. I am still in the process of cleaning the old 027 track. It is slow going but I think it will be worth it. My wife does not want to run a two tier layout  for the Christmas display. So I will have to store the track for a little while.

Thank you for your time

Phil

@Phil Ertman I’ve always found the below Lionel instruction manual from 1954 to be a valuable resource for wiring and running trains conventionally (variable voltage controlled at the transformer handle).

https://ogrforum.com/...83860657/Booklet.pdf

@Phil Ertman posted:

Lionel Type 4090...

A-U   5-18 Volts

A-U should be 5-16 volts.

The 4090 is designed to have the "U" post connected to the center rail, Lockon clip "1".

You can use instructions & connection diagrams for the 1033 & 1044 transformers, they are identical electrically.

@Phil Ertman posted:

I have 5 CW-80 Transformers Only output is variable 0 to 18 Volts. These run the modern engines like the Polar Express and my Milwaukee.

The A-U outputs should be 0-17.9 volts under minimal load.

The "U" post goes to the center rail Lockon clip "1" on CWs made before 2006 on common rail layouts(the whistle & bell functions will be reversed), Lockon clip "2" outside rails on CWs made 2006 & after(see date codes on bottom). All CW transformers also have 0-17.9 volts programmable B-U accessory posts... if they don't, they are 2.0 amp PowerMax or 2.5 amp PowerMax Plus transformers.

@JD2035RR posted:

@Phil Ertman I’ve always found the below Lionel instruction manual from 1954 to be a valuable resource for wiring and running trains conventionally (variable voltage controlled at the transformer handle).

https://ogrforum.com/...83860657/Booklet.pdf

This is good stuff. Thank you so much. I did the download and have already printed it out. (after three disk drives crashed I have learned to print what I need. I now have an address BOX OF 3*5 index cards . Sometimes new and improved is not better than old and cruddy.