OGR CHANGES FOR THE SPRING 2018 YORK MEET....!! PLEASE READ....

ALAN

LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU THERE

I have a gut feeling that a lot of forum members won't be going to York this April.  Barry had to cancel the DCS dinner, & I have noted that there have been a lot less posts &replies on the York forum.

I'm planning to make my second trip to York!  I plan to be at the Thursday night supper and the OGR meeting Friday once again!!  If my arthritic knees keep acting up as they are now, you may see me doing less walking and more hanging out at the various locations Alan mentioned!!  

eddie g posted:

I have a gut feeling that a lot of forum members won't be going to York this April.  Barry had to cancel the DCS dinner, & I have noted that there have been a lot less posts &replies on the York forum.

Going to York is an expensive trip for most of us. Two nights lodging, fuel (auto wear and tear), six meals, coffee breaks/snacks and the admission fee and TCA membership ( if you wish to see the whole meet).  Add in travel time.  Unless you lodge in a lower end motel you are looking at a minimum of $500- an expensive ticket just to get in the door. You are faced with the question, does attendance justify the expense? Go twice and year and that's $1000. That's not inexpensive. You can buy quite a few trains online or at local shows for a grand.

Dennis LaGrua posted:

eddie g posted:

I have a gut feeling that a lot of forum members won't be going to York this April.  Barry had to cancel the DCS dinner, & I have noted that there have been a lot less posts &replies on the York forum.

Going to York is an expensive trip for most of us. Two nights lodging, fuel (auto wear and tear), six meals, coffee breaks/snacks and the admission fee and TCA membership ( if you wish to see the whole meet).  Add in travel time.  Unless you lodge in a lower end motel you are looking at a minimum of $500- an expensive ticket just to get in the door. You are faced with the question, does attendance justify the expense? Go twice and year and that's $1000. That's not inexpensive. You can buy quite a few trains online or at local shows for a grand.

I live about two hours from York.  So that's four hours driving.  Nothing compared to some of you.  And I don't have to find lodging or even spend too much on meals.  I have been to one large scale show and two "O" scale shows.  For me, it's not really worth the time and effort.  I prefer smaller meets like Allentown or Hamburg and Greenbergs Oaks meet.  First, they are within an hour's drive.  The sheer amount of stuff at York over taxes my brain.  

I wish that I could get to York from CA this year.  It just doesn't work with my schedule.

I am going to he national TCA Convention in RI.  This will be my first TCA convention.  I am looking forward to York sometime in the future.  It sounds like a fun event.  I definitely am looking forward to attending the OGR functions.   NH Joe

I live 45 minutes from York and have attended once many moons ago and then I only stayed less than a day.  I really don't like crowds so York was a turn off for me.  I attend a couple of shows a year here in Baltimore and that's enough for me.

eddie g posted:

I have a gut feeling that a lot of forum members won't be going to York this April.  Barry had to cancel the DCS dinner, & I have noted that there have been a lot less posts &replies on the York forum.

Not sure why, but this seems to be an unusual York in that many of the guys I meet at York are not going for various reasons.  In fact, I'm not going - for the first time since 2006 - due to a family commitment.  (Can I confidentially say that "I'd rather be at York"????  LOL! )

The question was asked:    "You are faced with the question, does attendance justify the expense? Go twice and year and that's .................  "

I come from California twice a year, every year, and, yes, it is worth the "expense".

I have to ask people who live < 3 hours from York who don't go: What else are you doing that day that's more important than trains?  Watching Netflix?

I live < 2 hours from Springfield, Mass and, even though it's not as good as York for a tinplate collector, I still go to the Big E show because it's a pretty darned good train show that I can get to on a day trip ... and I'm not usually doing anything else that's more important than spending a day walking around looking at trains.

I live 7 hours from York and I still find the trip worth it.  I'd kill to be able to shoot over for a day without having to stay in hotels, pay for a long trip, etc.  I've cut back to just once a year due to the expense.

Maybe the sands of our hobby ARE shifting...

Steven J. Serenska

OGR PUBLISHER posted:

"As some of you already know, over the last few months OGR has been making some internal changes.  The biggest change we made is a de-centralization of the company and the move of our office to Hilliard Ohio.  We have made a few other changes that may be of interest to those of you that will be attending April 2018 York Meet.

For the April 2018 York meet, OGR will be in the Orange Hall next to Mr. Muffin's Trains.  Since Mr. Muffin's Trains now fulfills all OGR product orders, it makes sense for OGR to have our products conveniently located in the Mr. Muffin's Trains booth.   Jim Barrett, Allan Miller, and Ed Boyle will be manning the booth at various times, so we encourage all of you to stop by and visit!

Also...don't forget to attend both of the OGR traditions we all look forward to at York:

• The OGR member meet and greet meal at Quaker Steak and Lube on Thursday night after meet closing.
• The OGR Grand Stand meeting on Friday at 2P.M. in the Gold Hall.  This is where you will hear about the latest and greatest product coming from our manufacturers.

Enjoy the meet!!

Okay, Alan, but unclear exactly what you are saying. OGR will still have its own independent booth but it will now be located adjacent to Mr. Muffin's booth who will sell your OGR product line with the OGR staff  assisting Mr. Muffin with those OGR product sales, correct? If this is what the situation is going to be then will OGR's own booth be relegated solely to selling and promoting OGR subscriptions? Also, who will be manning OGR's own booth, Alan?

I have to ask people who live < 3 hours from York who don't go: What else are you doing that day that's more important than trains?

First you might have to ask why they don't belong to the TCA.
 

C W Burfle posted:

I have to ask people who live < 3 hours from York who don't go: What else are you doing that day that's more important than trains?

First you might have to ask why they don't belong to the TCA.
 

Cost versus perceived benefit of membership for theirself?

OGR PUBLISHER posted:

"As some of you already know, over the last few months OGR has been making some internal changes.  The biggest change we made is a de-centralization of the company and the move of our office to Hilliard Ohio.  We have made a few other changes that may be of interest to those of you that will be attending April 2018 York Meet.

For the April 2018 York meet, OGR will be in the Orange Hall next to Mr. Muffin's Trains.  Since Mr. Muffin's Trains now fulfills all OGR product orders, it makes sense for OGR to have our products conveniently located in the Mr. Muffin's Trains booth.   Jim Barrett, Allan Miller, and Ed Boyle will be manning the booth at various times, so we encourage all of you to stop by and visit!

Also...don't forget to attend both of the OGR traditions we all look forward to at York:

• The OGR member meet and greet meal at Quaker Steak and Lube on Thursday night after meet closing.
• The OGR Grand Stand meeting on Friday at 2P.M. in the Gold Hall.  This is where you will hear about the latest and greatest product coming from our manufacturers.

Enjoy the meet!!

Will you be decreasing the floor space?  Is there another vendor taking over the OGR floor space?  Or is this Show just decreasing in size as it has been for sometime?  We shall see in the next few weeks.  However, I'll be there both Thursday and Friday, I live an hour away and wouldn't miss this meet.

As you know I have been to over 80 York meets. I am addicted to York. I live 500 miles from York.  I'm 87 years old and still drive it. For years it was run into the halls to find that rare item that I had to have. Now it's just a social thing meeting all the friend's I have made over the last 40 years.

To answer some of the previous questions:

OGR will be co-located with Mr. Muffin's space in the Orange Hall. Steve (Mr. Muffin) will be handling OGR/Ameri-Towne product sales and the like.

You will be able to renew subscriptions or get a new subscription to the magazine at the meet.

This spring meet will be attended by myself, my wife Wendy, Jim Barrett, and Ed Boyle. Alan Arnold and Rich Melvin will not be attending (they are busy working on projects related to OGR Publishing).

The OGR Forum Member Meeting (somewhat traditionally held in the grandstand) will be in the Gold Hall adjacent to the grandstand, which is a good bit more comfortable in certain weather conditions. Ed Boyle is responsible for arranging and conducting that meeting, as in the past.

I have no idea what Eastern Div. will do with the space previously occupied by OGR in the Orange Hall, but I suspect it will be occupied by another dealer--possibly someone previously in the Purple Hall who has been on the "wait list" for space in the Orange Hall. That is generally the way things worked in the past.

This is York 53 for me and it has evolved and survived in those 26 and a half years. Made a lot of friends and spent a lot of money thru the years at the meet. I have worked 6 days a week for the last 43 years and nobody has gone with out and my beautiful wife has worked hard and done the same. So I will keep working and enjoying York as long as I don't become a client of my business.  Have fun folks enjoy your hobby you are a heartbeat and a breath away from the cemetery or crematory!

I was glad to meet you in person at York Don, Eddie, and so many others.  That’s the best part!

I've been a member for 30 years and have only missed 3 meets (deaths in family and a private tradgedy). I've gone when I didn't have a penny to spend, and had a great time. I've bought a lot of stuff over the years, and I've sold in the past and will probably do so again in the Fall. 

York is my twice a year re-charge vacation.

I can't wait!

Alan - Will the OGR booth at Mr. Muffins have the precut Ameri-Build buildings for kit bashing?

eddie g posted:

I have a gut feeling that a lot of forum members won't be going to York this April.  Barry had to cancel the DCS dinner, & I have noted that there have been a lot less posts &replies on the York forum.

Eddie......just more pancakes for us to eat at the Round-the-Clock!

Peter 

Wish I was going....maybe next October.

eddie g posted:

...For years it was run into the halls to find that rare item that I had to have. Now it's just a social thing meeting all the friend's I have made over the last 40 years...

And there, in two sentences, is why this meet becomes less and less relevant to those of us who go there to do business.

Eddie, I think it is fantastic that you can still drive to this meet at 87 years old! I hope I am in that kind of shape if/when I reach 87. But we at OGR and every other business that goes there to try and make a few dollars cannot justify the expense of doing this meet if it’s just a big social event and most people aren’t buying anything.

I, for one, am excited to go from a non-TCA perspective and a newbie to the hobby (well, decades from childhood).  I'm an hour and a half away and both my 5 YO son and 8 YO daughter want to go.  I was shocked when they said that, but for them I think they want to go because "daddy is into this" and they want to understand why.  So it'll be more viewing and buying some cool stuff that may get them engaged in trains.  I still see this as a STEM platform from an educational point of view, better than video games.  I may lose that bet but I'm trying.  

Looking forward to stopping by the booth and meeting you all!  If I can find horse related stuff (daughter) and military/space stuff (son) I think I'd have some happy kids.  

Well that may be true Rich. When I go to York I am buying less and socialize some. But I am shopping. I stop by and talk with your team but not to much. I talk with Steve across the aisle from you(Ross switches) also, do some talking but still shopping didn't buy anything just maybe some small stuff. then I wonder around, some more talking and meeting people and business(Muffins) on the forum, don't buy much but still shopping.  Get home feeling good about the business(Stockyard,Scenic Express, GGD) I talked with(socialize). Go down in the basement and start thinking, now its 6 months and a little poorer but I have new switch tracks, wire, supplies and new trains. Cause when I got home and started working on the layout, I got on the phone when I needed something,  I called the people I socialized (shop) with at York.

Thank you..... all you business people for being there and letting me socialize with you. 

Clem 

ogaugeguy posted:

OGR PUBLISHER posted:

"As some of you already know, over the last few months OGR has been making some internal changes.  The biggest change we made is a de-centralization of the company and the move of our office to Hilliard Ohio.  We have made a few other changes that may be of interest to those of you that will be attending April 2018 York Meet.

For the April 2018 York meet, OGR will be in the Orange Hall next to Mr. Muffin's Trains.  Since Mr. Muffin's Trains now fulfills all OGR product orders, it makes sense for OGR to have our products conveniently located in the Mr. Muffin's Trains booth.   Jim Barrett, Allan Miller, and Ed Boyle will be manning the booth at various times, so we encourage all of you to stop by and visit!

Also...don't forget to attend both of the OGR traditions we all look forward to at York:

• The OGR member meet and greet meal at Quaker Steak and Lube on Thursday night after meet closing.
• The OGR Grand Stand meeting on Friday at 2P.M. in the Gold Hall.  This is where you will hear about the latest and greatest product coming from our manufacturers.

Enjoy the meet!!

Okay, Alan, but unclear exactly what you are saying. OGR will still have its own independent booth but it will now be located adjacent to Mr. Muffin's booth who will sell your OGR product line with the OGR staff  assisting Mr. Muffin with those OGR product sales, correct? If this is what the situation is going to be then will OGR's own booth be relegated solely to selling and promoting OGR subscriptions? Also, who will be manning OGR's own booth, Alan?

Hi Ken....please see Allan Miller's response above this one....

Thanks,

Alan

laz1957 posted:

OGR PUBLISHER posted:

"As some of you already know, over the last few months OGR has been making some internal changes.  The biggest change we made is a de-centralization of the company and the move of our office to Hilliard Ohio.  We have made a few other changes that may be of interest to those of you that will be attending April 2018 York Meet.

For the April 2018 York meet, OGR will be in the Orange Hall next to Mr. Muffin's Trains.  Since Mr. Muffin's Trains now fulfills all OGR product orders, it makes sense for OGR to have our products conveniently located in the Mr. Muffin's Trains booth.   Jim Barrett, Allan Miller, and Ed Boyle will be manning the booth at various times, so we encourage all of you to stop by and visit!

Also...don't forget to attend both of the OGR traditions we all look forward to at York:

• The OGR member meet and greet meal at Quaker Steak and Lube on Thursday night after meet closing.
• The OGR Grand Stand meeting on Friday at 2P.M. in the Gold Hall.  This is where you will hear about the latest and greatest product coming from our manufacturers.

Enjoy the meet!!

Will you be decreasing the floor space?  Is there another vendor taking over the OGR floor space?  Or is this Show just decreasing in size as it has been for sometime?  We shall see in the next few weeks.  However, I'll be there both Thursday and Friday, I live an hour away and wouldn't miss this meet.

Laz....I think it is both.  Our plan is to be in our "regular" booth in October however recent conversations with the powers to be indicate that once we give up that space, we may not be able to get it back which means we will have to look at other alternatives including non-participation but I hope that is not an option...

J Daddy posted:

Alan - Will the OGR booth at Mr. Muffins have the precut Ameri-Build buildings for kit bashing?

Expect the entire product line to be there just as always....AND...those pre-cut pieces that are so popular go fast sometimes not lasting past the first day!

Kirk R posted:

I, for one, am excited to go from a non-TCA perspective and a newbie to the hobby (well, decades from childhood).  I'm an hour and a half away and both my 5 YO son and 8 YO daughter want to go.  I was shocked when they said that, but for them I think they want to go because "daddy is into this" and they want to understand why.  So it'll be more viewing and buying some cool stuff that may get them engaged in trains.  I still see this as a STEM platform from an educational point of view, better than video games.  I may lose that bet but I'm trying.  

Looking forward to stopping by the booth and meeting you all!  If I can find horse related stuff (daughter) and military/space stuff (son) I think I'd have some happy kids.  

clem k posted:

Well that may be true Rich. When I go to York I am buying less and socialize some. But I am shopping. I stop by and talk with your team but not to much. I talk with Steve across the aisle from you(Ross switches) also, do some talking but still shopping didn't buy anything just maybe some small stuff. then I wonder around, some more talking and meeting people and business(Muffins) on the forum, don't buy much but still shopping.  Get home feeling good about the business(Stockyard,Scenic Express, GGD) I talked with(socialize). Go down in the basement and start thinking, now its 6 months and a little poorer but I have new switch tracks, wire, supplies and new trains. Cause when I got home and started working on the layout, I got on the phone when I needed something,  I called the people I socialized (shop) with at York.

Thank you..... all you business people for being there and letting me socialize with you. 

Clem 

Kirk, I think you have an excellent perspective that a trip to York is an early STEM opportunity for the kids!!  We have two daughters who are now in their mid-20s.  We encouraged them to spend less time on the computer, and they developed interests aside from computer based options, one in art, the other in music.  Their husbands are another story.  Both are into computer games, but one has turned that interest into a side business.  The other has gotten into Pokemon Go, and that is how he gets his exercise.  I saw others with young kids at York, and think it will be a great experience for them and you!!! 

Clem, I made my first trip to York last October, and am going for part of the time this spring.  My hobby budget isn't much, but I did as you making purchases I may not have made if I hadn't gone to York.    Getting to talk with Steve of Ross Custom Switches, Steve aka Mr. Muffin, Mike Wolf, and Ed of OGR directly led to purchases at York but also more during the months after I returned home.  I am hobbled a bit by an arthritic knee that is probably going to lead to a replacement in the next few years, but now I know how to shoot directly from one place to another if it get to be a problem.  

Alan, Allan, Rich, Thank you for your transparency in sharing with us the situation with OGR at the present!!  All of you do a great job, and I count you as good friends!!!  

Mark Boyce posted:

Kirk R posted:

I, for one, am excited to go from a non-TCA perspective and a newbie to the hobby (well, decades from childhood).  I'm an hour and a half away and both my 5 YO son and 8 YO daughter want to go.  I was shocked when they said that, but for them I think they want to go because "daddy is into this" and they want to understand why.  So it'll be more viewing and buying some cool stuff that may get them engaged in trains.  I still see this as a STEM platform from an educational point of view, better than video games.  I may lose that bet but I'm trying.  

Looking forward to stopping by the booth and meeting you all!  If I can find horse related stuff (daughter) and military/space stuff (son) I think I'd have some happy kids.  

clem k posted:

Well that may be true Rich. When I go to York I am buying less and socialize some. But I am shopping. I stop by and talk with your team but not to much. I talk with Steve across the aisle from you(Ross switches) also, do some talking but still shopping didn't buy anything just maybe some small stuff. then I wonder around, some more talking and meeting people and business(Muffins) on the forum, don't buy much but still shopping.  Get home feeling good about the business(Stockyard,Scenic Express, GGD) I talked with(socialize). Go down in the basement and start thinking, now its 6 months and a little poorer but I have new switch tracks, wire, supplies and new trains. Cause when I got home and started working on the layout, I got on the phone when I needed something,  I called the people I socialized (shop) with at York.

Thank you..... all you business people for being there and letting me socialize with you. 

Clem 

Kirk, I think you have an excellent perspective that a trip to York is an early STEM opportunity for the kids!!  We have two daughters who are now in their mid-20s.  We encouraged them to spend less time on the computer, and they developed interests aside from computer based options, one in art, the other in music.  Their husbands are another story.  Both are into computer games, but one has turned that interest into a side business.  The other has gotten into Pokemon Go, and that is how he gets his exercise.  I saw others with young kids at York, and think it will be a great experience for them and you!!! 

Clem, I made my first trip to York last October, and am going for part of the time this spring.  My hobby budget isn't much, but I did as you making purchases I may not have made if I hadn't gone to York.    Getting to talk with Steve of Ross Custom Switches, Steve aka Mr. Muffin, Mike Wolf, and Ed of OGR directly led to purchases at York but also more during the months after I returned home.  I am hobbled a bit by an arthritic knee that is probably going to lead to a replacement in the next few years, but now I know how to shoot directly from one place to another if it get to be a problem.  

Alan, Allan, Rich, Thank you for your transparency in sharing with us the situation with OGR at the present!!  All of you do a great job, and I count you as good friends!!!  

Mark....We consider you a good friend too!   I do want to make sure that you and others know that there is no "situation" with OGR.  We are doing just fine because of our subscribers and advertisers... (hey we always want to do better!) but it made sense to go this route for the Spring York for a variety of reasons as stated above.  With Mr. Muffin's handling fulfillment services for OGR that we used to do for ourselves, we saw an opportunity that may work for both Muffin's and OGR.  You might say that this is an experiment at this point....and if it works, even if it needs adjustments, we will learn to do it better.  As I said, the plans were to try this for the Spring York and then have the usual stand alone OGR booth in the fall...but we found out that we may not be able to get our space back and since we didn't want to invest in an empty area for this Spring in order to assure the fall space, we may be looking at other alternatives.  OGR has been a very long supporter of the York meet but times are changing in this hobby.  We want to continue to support York but we have to be able to do so and at least come close to breaking even.  Proper and appropriate promoting of the York event to new demographics could help increase sales and participation...and...OGR is ready and willing to work with the great folks in the Eastern Division to make that happen!

Thank you, Alan!!  These are all smart business considerations in my opinion!  OGR is a business just as everyone else in the dealers halls.  You always need to be looking at better ways of doing your business, partnering with other businesses, and looking at changing trends and demographics!  Business partners taking a well deserved retirement and passing the baton to others is always a factor to consider as well.   That is all I really meant by situation.  I am actually excited about the future for OGR, The Muffins, and the hobby as well.

We attended a York Meet and was very pleased, and I can cross it off my to do bucket list.  That said the wife and I have reached a point where we like to go to local train shows to pick up a few small items for the layout, but mostly just do meet and greets with vendors we have met over the years.  There is just so much you can do and older we get, the longer it takes.  And quite honestly, interests change and trains may take a back seat to something new.

I mean seriously, we all at some point reach a saturation point of trains and other stuff (yeah I know there are die-hards who will never be satisfied until they have every last pristine model from JCowen's first primitive wooden car to  Mike Wolf's MTH drawing board one of a kind prototypes. )  

Really a bell curve, you excitedly enter wanting/buying everything  , until reaching satisfaction peak , then begin selling off less needed/duplicates, or just plain exiting the hobby , until finally your next of kin dispose "the junk" for pennies on the dollar.

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Going to York is an expensive trip for most of us. Two nights lodging, fuel (auto wear and tear), six meals, coffee breaks/snacks and the admission fee and TCA membership ( if you wish to see the whole meet).  Add in travel time.  Unless you lodge in a lower end motel you are looking at a minimum of $500- an expensive ticket just to get in the door. You are faced with the question, does attendance justify the expense? Go twice and year and that's $1000. That's not inexpensive. You can buy quite a few trains online or at local shows for a grand.

That's my problem, too.  I'd love to attend York, but for this retiree, it's just too expensive.

Balshis posted:

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Going to York is an expensive trip for most of us. Two nights lodging, fuel (auto wear and tear), six meals, coffee breaks/snacks and the admission fee and TCA membership ( if you wish to see the whole meet).  Add in travel time.  Unless you lodge in a lower end motel you are looking at a minimum of $500- an expensive ticket just to get in the door. You are faced with the question, does attendance justify the expense? Go twice and year and that's $1000. That's not inexpensive. You can buy quite a few trains online or at local shows for a grand.

That's my problem, too.  I'd love to attend York, but for this retiree, it's just too expensive.

Rooming with a friend at a cheap motel up the highway, I go about as cheap as I can get away with.  Once I retire in a couple years, I may be in the same boat as both of you for sure!

eddie g posted:

I have a gut feeling that a lot of forum members won't be going to York this April.  Barry had to cancel the DCS dinner, & I have noted that there have been a lot less posts &replies on the York forum.

I fall under that category due to my wife having a stroke at the end of Feb. I was planning on going. She has improved a lot, but not enough for me to go to york and leave her behind and she's not ready for a trip that far. I'm hoping for October now. It still will be two days there and two days back for us. We both hope you all have a good time there.  

Looking forward to seeing the OGR gang and the Muffin's as I need to pick up the items I ordered

Barry will be with the MTH Team - look at the Newsletter, tells the story

I attended my first York meet over 15 years ago at the suggestion of a TCA member who struck up a conversation with me when shopping at the Lantz Train Shop in Horseheads, NY.  I was in the process of renewing my interests in Lionel trains after decades of typical teen layout sitting in boxes. Living in Ithaca, NY the drive was not bad.  The meet got me hooked, joined TCA, and I attended many, many more York meets.  I purchased new and vintage items to build the "dream" layout. Learned about lots of features provided by various manufacturers.  Had fun shopping for best prices (huge range in prices for private sales), and the perfect find, even if only special screws...which I could probably get on-line. 

Then moved to Portland, OR in retirement to be closer to children and grandchildren.  Now I time visits to family on LI with the fall York meet.  My wife accompanies me and goes shopping in the area, while I enjoy the meet during the day.  We also get to enjoy the beautiful fall colors.  Could not do it last fall, so will be there in a few weeks. Can't wait!  

I understand the issues of personal time, cost, and changes in the business aspect of this hobby.  I am grateful that I have the opportunity to enjoy and engage in this hobby in retirement.   Hope to see you folks out there.

Michael

York is incredibly cool!  Will be there, buying trains and hanging with friends.  

Harold

dk122trains posted:

This is York 53 for me and it has evolved and survived in those 26 and a half years. Made a lot of friends and spent a lot of money thru the years at the meet. I have worked 6 days a week for the last 43 years and nobody has gone with out and my beautiful wife has worked hard and done the same. So I will keep working and enjoying York as long as I don't become a client of my business.  Have fun folks enjoy your hobby you are a heartbeat and a breath away from the cemetery or crematory!

Well said Don. My feelings exactly.