Just wondering if it’s recommended to oil ball bearing trucks (Protocraft, Wasatch, Key or 3rd Rail). They run better than anything just without, but would it be advisable if put to constant use?
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Lube is never a bad thing on moving mechanical parts as a rule, and ball bearings are certainly in the mix. Obviously, you don't oil mechanical E-Units, that's a rare exception. 
I would, but very little
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Lube is never a bad thing on moving mechanical parts as a rule, and ball bearings are certainly in the mix. Obviously, you don't oil mechanical E-Units, that's a rare exception.
Tuner cleaner works well on e-units from my past, which both cleans and lubricates but doesn't hurt anything.
@SANTIAGOP23 posted:Just wondering if it’s recommended to oil ball bearing trucks (Protocraft, Wasatch, Key or 3rd Rail). They run better than anything just without, but would it be advisable if put to constant use?
You can oil them with a light oil, but it is just a touch. Ball bearings don't need the lubrication that regular old solid bearings do, but a touch of oil once in a while (I am talking maybe once a year) will be fine. You don't want too much then crud collects and you then have to clean them.
Might contact the manufacture. If it was me I'd use Labelle gear oil on them and a very small amount.
The gear oil should stay put if not over done.
Assuming they are not sealed or ceramic, I would use a thin, micro oil made specifically for ball bearings. Look for those made for r/c cars which are generally pretty good. There are many available on the web.
Many gear lubes are too thick for ball bearings.
@bigkid posted:You can oil them with a light oil, but it is just a touch. Ball bearings don't need the lubrication that regular old solid bearings do, but a touch of oil once in a while (I am talking maybe once a year) will be fine. You don't want too much then crud collects and you then have to clean them.
@Richie C. posted:Assuming they are not sealed or ceramic, I would use a thin, micro oil made specifically for ball bearings. Look for those made for r/c cars which are generally pretty good. There are many available on the web.
Many gear lubes are too thick for ball bearings.
Where do you guys get your information from?…..please explain, I’d love to hear more……because what you both wrote, makes zero sense!!…..ALL bearings require lube!!…..especially ball bearings!!….and I’ve never ever heard gear lube is too thick for ball bearings!!,…..again, where do you find your resources!!??…..
Santiago, if I may, use your favorite flavor of oil you have on hand. Lube them sparingly, and simply make it part of a routine maintenance program,….if you use a thicker oil, it will hang around longer, and thus, longer maintenance intervals. Lighter, thinner oil will dissipate sooner then thicker oil, so maintain more often……regular motor oil would be ideal,…..whatever flavor you happen to have in the garage would absolutely be fine…….5W-20,30, or whatever,…..
Pat
I have a bottle of "Spin Free Micro Ball Bearing Oil" I think it not only provides rust prevention it quietens ball bearings down a bit. Honestly I do think it creates a bit more drag than freshly cleaned bare ball bearings. j
I used 5W20 motor oil for all my oiling chores and Red-N-Tacky for greasing gears. The fact that you oiled something is far more important then the brand of oil you use.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I used 5W20 motor oil for all my oiling chores and Red-N-Tacky for greasing gears. The fact that you oiled something is far more important then the brand of oil you use.
The fact that you oiled something is far more important then the brand of oil you use.
BINGO!
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Where do you guys get your information from?…..please explain, I’d love to hear more……because what you both wrote, makes zero sense!!…..ALL bearings require lube!!…..especially ball bearings!!….and I’ve never ever heard gear lube is too thick for ball bearings!!,…..again, where do you find your resources!!??…..
Santiago, if I may, use your favorite flavor of oil you have on hand. Lube them sparingly, and simply make it part of a routine maintenance program,….if you use a thicker oil, it will hang around longer, and thus, longer maintenance intervals. Lighter, thinner oil will dissipate sooner then thicker oil, so maintain more often……regular motor oil would be ideal,…..whatever flavor you happen to have in the garage would absolutely be fine…….5W-20,30, or whatever,…..
Pat
Not sure where you get your information from, but mine is based upon 20 years experience racing R/C cars across the country and dealing with different kinds of motor, wheel and other ball bearings and their lubrication needs on an almost daily basis.
I never said ball bearings don't require lubrication. If you think you can squeeze some oil into a sealed bearing, then more power to you. In addition, ceramic bearings typically require a different lube than steel ball bearings.
If you knew anything about lubrication, which you clearly do not, you would understand that oils are generally rated by viscosity, which, in layman's terms describes the thickness or stickiness of a fluid (in this case oil). Scientifically, it relates to the resistance of a fluid to flow or the internal friction of a moving fluid. The higher the viscosity number, the thicker the fluid and the more resistance it has.
Ball bearings, especially where moving wheels are concerned such as in train trucks, are meant to move freely without a lot of drag or resistance. I never said you couldn't use gear lube to lubricate a ball bearing. However, gear oil (by definition) is designed to be applied to gears where a more viscous lube is needed as opposed to ball bearings where it is generally more desirable to use a thinner, less viscous oil so the wheels spin more freely and the steel balls don't have as much resistance from a thicker lube, like gear oil.
That's why I recommended a thinner oil, specifically designed for ball bearings rather than a gear lube.
Now exactly where did you get your information from ?
@Richie C. posted:Not sure where you get your information from, but mine is based upon 20 years experience racing R/C cars across the country and dealing with different kinds of motor, wheel and other ball bearings and their lubrication needs on an almost daily basis.
I never said ball bearings don't require lubrication. If you think you can squeeze some oil into a sealed bearing, then more power to you. In addition, ceramic bearings typically require a different lube than steel ball bearings.
If you knew anything about lubrication, which you clearly do not, you would understand that oils are generally rated by viscosity, which, in layman's terms describes the thickness or stickiness of a fluid (in this case oil). Scientifically, it relates to the resistance of a fluid to flow or the internal friction of a moving fluid. The higher the viscosity number, the thicker the fluid and the more resistance it has.
Ball bearings, especially where moving wheels are concerned such as in train trucks, are meant to move freely without a lot of drag or resistance. I never said you couldn't use gear lube to lubricate a ball bearing. However, gear oil (by definition) is designed to be applied to gears where a more viscous lube is needed as opposed to ball bearings where it is generally more desirable to use a thinner, less viscous oil so the wheels spin more freely and the steel balls don't have as much resistance from a thicker lube, like gear oil.
That's why I recommended a thinner oil, specifically designed for ball bearings rather than a gear lube.
Now exactly where did you get your information from ?
Now exactly where did you get your information from ?
Me,…. I’m sure glad you’ve become an expert playing with RC cars., My experience is 35 years in the automotive industry. Y’all folks sometimes make mountains out of mole hills, ….RC cars don’t make you an expert, I’ve forgotten more about viscosity then you’ll ever know playing with RC cars buddy,…..
Pat
Train bearing do not need a automotive multi weight oil like 5W30 as trains are not exposed to extreme summer and winter temperatures. A single weight 20 or 30 oil will work just fine. Also a single weight synthetic oil is preferred as it will have fewer impurities.
Charlie
Not really, pal.
I'm sure your job in the "automotive industry" had little if anything to do with ball bearings or oil viscosity.
Again, you clearly can't read English because I never claimed to be an "expert' in ball bearing technology - I was only trying to be helpful to the OP by making a recommendation based on my years of experience with ball bearings trying to find the balance between the right amount of viscosity and the least amount of rolling resistance, when you jumped ugly for no reason.
You also have no concept of R/C racing at a high level with team drivers, sponsorships and the interaction that racers have with various manufacturers, including those in the lubrication portion of it.
Try and get a life.
It depends.
Some ball bearings are open and should be lubricated
Some ball bearings are sealed with lube. These do not need to be lubed frequently.
Then there are the ceramic ball bearings which require little to no lube:
https://www.bocabearings.com/p...arings?ProductType=0
What good is lube when the ball bearing is being operated at 2000 F? However, I somehow suspect that most of you are not using a ball bearing that can cost up to $1500 (perhaps more) per ball bearing.
@Choo Choo Charlie posted:Train bearing do not need a automotive multi weight oil like 5W30 as trains are not exposed to extreme summer and winter temperatures. A single weight 20 or 30 oil will work just fine. Also a single weight synthetic oil is preferred as it will have fewer impurities.
Charlie
Need didn't enter into it, I had the 5W20 on the shelf, it works fine.
fun times
Just remember some ball bearings come pre-lubricated and the manufacturers state, "Lifetime lubrication." Most, if not all, of the bearings I use are sealed or shielded. About all you're lubricating is the face of the bearing. Just sayin...
Jay
Santiago, I would check with Scott, and see what he recommends. I think he would be the actual authority'... Personally, I don't think automotive oil would be ideal for any model train'...
I use LaBelle oil #108. For model trains.
Dick
fun times
I hear you!
I commented to a post a few months ago and someone on this forum went to my profile and got my personal email and sent what I considered a threating message to me off the forum. I just deleted it and did not respond back. Hopefully this all stayed within the forum here.
@SANTIAGOP23 posted:fun times
Aren't you glad you asked?
(Gotta get a popcorn machine next to this desk...and a small beer cooler beneath!)
BTW...Until I read down through these responses, the memory that came to my mind after reading Santiago's question was of a time many, many moons ago. We were traveling, needed some roadside help, was towed to a 2-bay station in the next town. Mine was a relatively simple, minor problem. The car in the second bay apparently had a front wheel bearing issue. The mechanic was sitting on the ground, ball bearing in the one hand, a handful of grease glop in the other, and he was packing massaging the grease into that BB like Helga working out the tired muscles on your back! Dad and I had done the simple under-hood things in our garage when I was growing up, but this bearing 'massage' was a first for me!
So I just assumed there was some sort of "bearing grease".
I'm somewhat puzzled by LaBelle 108 and the like in an unsealed BB. I'd have thought gravity...(Sheldon's nemesis on moving day)...would've worked only in the short term for a viscosity that thin, and its migration potentially another maintenance/collateral problem. Since I also have Red 'n Tacky, I think that would have been my first choice from my memorable event of yore, and not having read these responses. Then again, point contact light-duty bearing lubrication is not in the same league as sleeve bearing heavy duty lubrication.
Hey, what do I know?...I come here to learn, too.
I certainly don't want to get in a pi**ing match either, just sharing my experience: when working on my '62 VW Beetle's wheels I would pack the wheel's ball bearings with thick, sticky high temperature ball bearing grease.
And when I would overhaul my Italian racing bicycle's bottom bracket, head set and axle bearings, the ball bearings would also get packed with the grease appropriate for them.
At least we found a subject that has generated some interest !!!
@Dan Kenny posted:I commented to a post a few months ago and someone on this forum went to my profile and got my personal email and sent what I considered a threating message to me off the forum. I just deleted it and did not respond back. Hopefully this all stayed within the forum here.
Really??? Over toy trains? LOL! I would have given him my address, and asked him what time he would arrive.
( the only difference between men and boys IS the price of their toys...I guess)
Back to the topic on hand.
Theres alot of over thinking going on here. Probably alot more than at the factory where they make these things.
In fact, theres a video of the factory where a "well known train maufacturer" has a bottle of lamp oil to test smoke units. I'd bet the train with vaseline in the gearbox would last as long as one with Red N' Tacky.
Most worm and internal gears on diesels likely never get greased beyond the factory. The motors have to be pulled and trucks removed from the chassis to do this. I bet alot of folks aren"t doing that because theres no recommendation in the manual. I just serviced 2 legacy diesels where the factory grease was just a liquified memory.
As usual though, its always the 3 rail scale guys causin' trouble. Just kidding Santiago, great modelling!
@RickO posted:Really??? Over toy trains? LOL! I would have given him my address, and asked him what time he would arrive.
( the only difference between men and boys IS the price of their toys...I guess)
Back to the topic on hand.
Theres alot of over thinking going on here. Probably alot more than at the factory where they make these things.
In fact, theres a video of the factory where a "well known train maufacturer" has a bottle of lamp oil to test smoke units. I'd bet the train with vaseline in the gearbox would last as long as one with Red N' Tacky.
Most worm and internal gears on diesels likely never get greased beyond the factory. The motors have to be pulled and trucks removed from the chassis to do this. I bet alot of folks aren"t doing that because theres no recommendation in the manual. I just serviced 2 legacy diesels where the factory grease was just a liquified memory.
As usual though, its always the 3 rail scale guys causin' trouble.
I would blot out the cus words, and snap a pic of it and post it on here for everyone to see just how stupid that person really is,……THEN give him the address…..😉…
Pat
@Dan Kenny posted:I commented to a post a few months ago and someone on this forum went to my profile and got my personal email and sent what I considered a threating message to me off the forum. I just deleted it and did not respond back. Hopefully this all stayed within the forum here.
It's easy to be brave behind the anonymity of the Internet.
Progress' I remember as a kid in the early 50s, I'd go with my dad, and his 54 Mercury, to the garage for a tune up. Lube, oil, filter, plugs, points and repack bearings.. Thick heavy grease... This was standard procedure in those days.. Today bearings last forever. Last time I had to replace rear bearings was on a 67 Ford I bought second hand with super high mileage on it.. The bearings just plain wore out. They were the kind that couldn't be packed...
@SANTIAGOP23 posted:Just wondering if it’s recommended to oil ball bearing trucks (Protocraft, Wasatch, Key or 3rd Rail). They run better than anything just without, but would it be advisable if put to constant use?
Let me suggest an experiment. Remove a pair of trucks from a car. Pack one set with your favorite grease. Put a few drops of light oil on the other, then push them down the track and see how far they roll.
I am assuming these are open bearings, not shielded nor sealed.
I know which one I would bet on.
Pete
Comparing automotive bearings and their appropriate lubricants to the sub miniature bearings used in model trains and their appropriate lubricants does not seem particularly fruitful to me.
Agreed. I suppose the best answer to the original question is to refer to the manufacturer's recommendations, whether you're talking about automobile wheels or micro sized bearings.
Are they sealed, shielded, or open? I'd say if shielded or open, just a tiny bit of light oil would suffice. If you know any skateboarder maniacs, ask them to borrow a bit of Speed Cream: https://bonesbearings.com/bone...eed-creamr-lubricant
Thanks for the output, everyone. My conclusion is light oil can’t hurt, but it’s not necessary with these modern ball bearings.
