Old boxcars - What do I have?

They could be old Athearn built up from kits, or maybe All Nation. 

I agree with Hot Water and I was wondering about a Walthers or Inter Mountain kit.

I vote for All Nation. Athearn were made of tinplate. These appear to be made of brass sheet. 

Pete

I did a magnet test.  It stuck, so the bodies are steel.  I'm beginning to lean toward Athearn.

Tom

Athearn. I have recently bought some and restored them. If you don't want them let me know. my email is in my profile.

Doug

those look nice!

Look at the car ends....

Both the NYC Pacemaker and B&O Sentinel box car have Murphy rectangular panel roots and incorrect Pullman-Standard PS-1 style ends.  On every old kit that I have ever had a chance to examine that means All Nation.  Athearn used Deadnought ends.

Doug,

Email sent.

Tom

Mostly the difference between Athearn and All Nation is the thickness of the steel.  Athearn was about 20% thinner.  Really makes no difference.

These go for about eight bucks at shows, or forty plus shipping on the internet.  We 2–railers love these things.  I have too many, or would have thrown my hat in the ring.

I've resurrected a few of these in the past. What I founf worke dbest were the old Weaver plastic trucks and they will run

.enjoy

Tom

Reply to your email sent.

Bob2 

For me I had seen them at shows and had passed on them. Not any more. Since I have been slowly been converting over to kadees. These cars are easy conversion to high rail using Athearn trucks and replacing the 2R wheels with 3R sets. They are fairly easy to repair or modify and aremarked in the era I am modling. They have a nice feel about them and there metal whats more prototypical with dents.

Ted

Thats why I think the kits should of been included in you guide. Buying cars that have been built its to late, but when you buy the kits you can make the corrections. as I have seen roof and end panels for sale. Just like the RTR rolling stock, the info on the kits would also be valuable. At least I would think.

Did I hear all the chatter in the background, "Oh for the good ol' days"? (Yeah, Right ).

God Bless,

"Pappy"

I hope your not talking about your dentures. 

I would have said Atheran....never knew the end differences......

Athearn and the B&O Sentinel has ends only avail with that kit. i have both kits brand new on my pile of to do builds................ guess i need to live another 65 years to get this all done!

Ted

Thats why I think the kits should of been included in you guide. Buying cars that have been built its to late, but when you buy the kits you can make the corrections. as I have seen roof and end panels for sale. Just like the RTR rolling stock, the info on the kits would also be valuable. At least I would think.

suzukovich

OK, I'll do an O Scale Freight Car Guide to Kits.  But it will rely heavily on audience participation. 

Athearn and the B&O Sentinel has ends only avail with that kit. i have both kits brand new on my pile of to do builds.....

Nicky

Are you certain that the ends were not swapped before you bought the unbuilt kit?  I know that some Athearn kits have been robbed to get correct ends for an All Nation car.

Something I've stored on how to tell Athearn cars from All-Nation (from J. Pantry).

In addition to this information, the materials that were used varied widely, ranging from stamped tin plated steel, to brass, to aluminum.  The last couple of Athearn kits that I got while that line was held by Jan Lorenzen of LWS were a mix of materials.  Most were brass after that line moved to Beat Hug's ownership under the Old Pullman label.

The following are the spotting features between All-Nation and Athearn.

 

How to tell whether a 40' steel sided boxcar (with metal roof, metal ends, and metal underframe) is an Athearn car or an All-Nation car:

 

1) If you measure the length of the car from the underside, from the inside of one metal end to the inside of the other metal end, an All-Nation car will measure 10", whereas an Athearn car will measure 10-1/8".  This is the same dimension as the car sides.

 

2) If you open the doors, an Athearn car will have a wood or composition inner wall, whereas an All-Nation car will not.

 

3) Just below the right end of the lower door slide, the scalloped edge along the bottom of the car side, an All-Nation car will be cut vertically, whereas an Athearn car will be cut at an angle, just like all of the other scalloped edges on both cars.  Obviously, a modeler could trim an All-Nation car to look like an Athearn, but an Athearn car would never be made to look like an All-Nation.

 

4) Along the bottom edge of the roof overhang, along the side of the car, most Athearn cars will have a row of rivets, whereas an All-Nation car will not.  Do not confuse this row of rivets with the row of rivets along the top edge of the car side, which both cars have.

 

There are other more subtle differences between the two, but the above differences will enable you to determine which it is.  I avoid ends, doors, and underframes in my comparison because those items are easily interchanged between the two.

 

How to tell whether other car types are Athearn or All-Nation:

 

Athearn had a 50' steel sided boxcar (with metal roof, metal ends, and metal underframe).  All-Nation did not.

 

Athearn had a 40' steel sided reefer (with metal roof, metal ends, and metal underframe).  All-Nation did not.

 

All-Nation had a 36', 40', and 50' wood sided reefer (with wood roof, wood ends, and wood underframe).  Athearn did not.

 

All-Nation had a 40' wood sided reefer (with metal roof, metal ends, and metal underframe).  Athearn did not.

 

All-Nation had a 40' outside braced boxcar (with wood roof, metal ends, and metal underframe).  Athearn did not.

 

Both All-Nation and Athearn had a 40' wood sided boxcar (with metal roof, metal ends, and metal underframe).  However, the above 1st and 4th rules still apply.

 

Athearn also had a few one-of-a-kind cars that do not follow all of the rules of their other 40' steel sided boxcars. The Rock Island 20060 aluminum boxcar is one of those exceptions. There was also a GN 2500 aluminum boxcar, a GN 44424 orange sided boxcar, and a GN 47872 wood sided boxcar.

Thanks Ted. Obviously kits produced as for accuracy to prototypes is your department. But I agree this is where the 3R and 2R scale guys can show their stuff and knowledge. MWB above post is a prime example. I seen kits from locos  to Waycars/Cabooses for sale. With mwb reply its a start that will help me when looking at the built cars and kits. It s too bad with all their knowledge the 2R crowd never chime in on your guide.

Ted I just want to thank you again for all your work.

While a lot of the built cars will be built stock as designed right from the box, there will be a good proportion that are not, that are cross-kitted, sliced & diced, bashed, or just adaptations of a pile of parts to get to the final product.  One of my gondolas has parts from at least 6 kits,

On your other point - Not entirely true.  Several of the 2R "crowd" do chime in beyond myself.  And, you can always ask over on the 2R side as well as the 3RS side where things are a tad "blurry".

On your first answer. Yes a lot will be built as is. As skills progress the kit bashing begins. But there has to be a starting point. With a source for information about the kits, I think would make it easier to take the plunge. Ive have repaired and or repurposed a few kit built cars and yes I have a lot of questions about the different kits. As for building kits I now have built a couple of Intermountain kits and a Pecos River kit. yes I made mistakes but I am learning. I have been wanting to buy a few Athearn and All nations kits but lack the knowledge about them as to what is scale and what is not. The RTR rolling stock that is out there are great. but to purchase a 70.00 car to kitbash or to reconfigure just dose not make sense when your a rookie like me. Members like you, Malcolm and a few others I have been following and been learning from. and now I have taken the plunge. I believe I not the only one out here on the forum that has been on the fence. I think for the younger members and to expand the hobby would be beneficial. To think This all started with a CB&Q Way Car project I did a few months ago.

As for the 2R?3R guys chiming in on Teds guide. Yes I know there has been a few, but as far as I can tell nobody has ever provided input about the various kits and there differences in his threads.  Who cares about blurry. I would think this would be about information and encouragement.

Yeah its tuesday

Doug

Ted just does a beautiful job of starting his threads.  He has never discouraged addditions from other posters, and if you think about it, additions from others is the essence of a forum topic.

I don't have any statistics, but I often post a photo as an addition to Ted's beautiful compendiums, and from the reaction I get, my half-century old 2- rail cars are at best ignored, and maybe not even very welcome.  That's ok; I will keep adding when I have them in Photobucket.

Here is a Varney copied onto an All Nation:

I am not sure the original question has been answered. I see rivets along the roof edge so this makes it an Athearn car but I am not sure about the meaning of the inner wood wall. Does this mean the All Nation car sides do not have a wood backing? 

I have not built any O gauge metal cars but have done a few HO Athearn cars. Even after doing many scores of wood kits and later plastic kits I found these metal cars the most challenging to get right. If I ever finish the few unbuilt kits I have I will make jigs first to hold the metal square before soldering. That said, while interesting, they will never match the modern plastic kits for detail and accuracy.

Pete

Indeed, Bob and I both generally post photos and/or provide information.

Whatever they are, just slap a couple of standard tinplate type trucks with couplers on them and use them to your heart's content.  I have a number of former scale freight car kits on my layout; they look just fine with the more recent built cars and they offer a bit of variety for the viewer.

Paul Fischer

Actually, if you look around, you'll probably find quite a few A-N and Athearn cars riding on 3 rail trucks!

Well, yeah, because All Nation sold tinplate trucks and couplers to go with their kits.  You could even get their steam locomotives in 3-rail.  At the time they were not real popular; most 3-rail was undersize "O-27" and a scale boxcar would just overwhelm everything else.

Indeed.  It was all available for many years; some took advantage those can be found at swap meets, eBay, etc.

Ted just does a beautiful job of starting his threads. 

Gee Bob, that is an awfully nice thing to say.  I'm glad that you like the introductions to the articles.  I always try to start with something about the function or evolution of a type of car.

He has never discouraged addditions from other posters, and if you think about it, additions from others is the essence of a forum topic.

One of the reasons I started the O Scale Freight Car Guide series was so that I could find out more about some of the models that are available in O scale.  I'm pretty familiar with the information available from the Atlas (ugh!), Lionel, MTH and Weaver web sites.  But when it comes to kits we are in pre-web territory, although there is a lot to learn through the bay.

Indeed, Bob and I both generally post photos and/or provide information.

MWB and Bob

You guys sure have contributed, especially with photos of older cars built from kits.  Thanks for doing it and please keep it up. While there are over 200 different O scale freight car models that have been produced since the 1990s there are some gaps that are well filled by older models, especially car kits.

A Classic Kits thread will be heavily user dependent for information and photos.  Earlier this year I started a list of O scale freight car kits.  I am sure that there are many omissions from my list.  When I get a chance to put up a kit thread I hope that you guys and the rest of the folks on the forum will help the thread develop into a good reference source for those who are trying to find a model to fill out their car roster or determine the origin of a model in their collection.

I'm sure that Bob & I and few others will chime in for you.

The list of kits is apparently never-ending as there were a very large number of small basement/garage operations that might have only made 2-5 kits.  I'm still one of those guys! 

I was glad to see this post. I have one of these B&O box cars, and had no idea what it was. It was pretty beat up even before I used it for weathering practice, and before my grandson graffiti artist got ahold of it! LOL

Bill, I think what you have there is a KUSAN (AMT/KMT) boxcar. If it's plastic, with gray metal couplers that mate with Lionel's, and has a pot metal under carriage, it's Kusan.

Intermountain, All Nation, Athearn, Atlas/Rocco kits

Tom cars arrived yesterday. Thanks. Email sent and sent cost of the shipping through pay pal

Doug