Older Williams with bad E-Reversing units

I may be interested in some parts if the plan goes that way.

The least expensive thing to do is to take out the circuit board and install a bridge rectifier. The plus & minus signs on the rectifier go to the motors. One bridge rectifier at; 6 amps, 50 volts will do both motors. You will lose direction control unless you install a double pole double throw toggle switch between the motors and bridge rectifier and reverse the wires to the toggle switch. Never run a Williams motor without a circuit board or bridge rectifier. They use CD can motors and straight AC will burn up the motors.

I did this to my Williams Santa Fe F-7's. 

Price  wise; Williams by Bachmann circuit boards are about $50.00 plus shipping, bridge rectifier is about $5.00 and the toggle switch about $5.00 at any electronics store.

Lee Fritz

I have an older Williams GG1 and there is no reversing unit in it.  It only runs forward and I believe that's how it was manufactured.  I don't know anything about the unit in question.

Dan65train posted:

I have an older Williams GG1 and there is no reversing unit in it.  It only runs forward and I believe that's how it was manufactured.  I don't know anything about the unit in question.

There should have been a reversing unit in the William GG-1. I have seen a lot of Williams engines and they always had a reversing unit. There might be a small micro switch on the frame on the bottom of your GG-1 that needs to be switched to on. Otherwise somebody took the reversing unit out.

Lee Fritz

I've installed bridge rectifiers in DC-motored locos to run them on conventional O-gauge AC power. And I've also installed manual reversing switches to replace problematic E-units. Those are good cheap fixes for those situations.

A manual reversing switch with a center-off position allows you to park a loco anywhere without isolating blocks. Individual manual reversing switches on locos also make it easy to MU different units.

You can pretty commonly pick up Williams reverse boards for $20 or less.

I would be interested in them as is.  Shoot me an e-mail on them. My e-mail is in my profile.

Karl

gunrunnerjohn posted:

You can pretty commonly pick up Williams reverse boards for $20 or less.

Sure wish I would've known that as I just spent $70 on a brand spankin' new one yesterday.

phillyreading posted:

Dan65train posted:

I have an older Williams GG1 and there is no reversing unit in it.  It only runs forward and I believe that's how it was manufactured.  I don't know anything about the unit in question.

There should have been a reversing unit in the William GG-1. I have seen a lot of Williams engines and they always had a reversing unit. There might be a small micro switch on the frame on the bottom of your GG-1 that needs to be switched to on. Otherwise somebody took the reversing unit out.

Lee Fritz

The TCA 25th Anniversary version had a single motor and no reverse board.

Steve

I've sold a number of them here and on eBay, never got more than around $20 for them.  When I upgrade a Williams, I end up with a reverse unit.

Early Williams locomotives didn't have reverse units. Instructions explained how to install a Lionel E-unit and a bridge rectifier for DC to the motors.

I vaguely recall that Williams was working on a reverse board for the TCA 25th Anniversary Set that Steve mentioned. But it didn't work. Eventually Lionel E-units were offered to buyers.

Lots of owners tinkered with Williams products. That defective reverse unit in the 4307 AA set may or may not be original.

I'd add a photo or two so buyers can see what they are getting and sell it as is [see Karl's post].

A buyer may want to add a reverse unit and a sound system. Besides Williams, Dallee makes them.

A manual reverse switch as Ace posted is another quick fix.

Not quite on point, but it always creeps me out when I hear someone considering "scrapping/junking" model RR equipment because an electronic component has gone belly-up. These are just control boards; they can be replaced (as we know). This same solution applies to many mechanical components, too. This hobby used to be about making and fixing things...

A friend of mine (someone with way too much money, admittedly) some years ago threw an entire, die-cast MTH steam locomotive in the trash (it is somewhere in the landfill still, of course - and boxed!) simply because the PS-1 board had gone bad (knowing him, he probably messed up the chip, got mad, and just junked a scale model locomotive).  The whole thing still annoys me...what I could have done with that thing...

OK; whew. Fix it.

ReadingFan posted:

Early Williams locomotives didn't have reverse units. Instructions explained how to install a Lionel E-unit and a bridge rectifier for DC to the motors.

I vaguely recall that Williams was working on a reverse board for the TCA 25th Anniversary Set that Steve mentioned. But it didn't work. Eventually Lionel E-units were offered to buyers.

The TCA set, my 3 SD45s, first F7s, and first FM were all forward-only. Some have MagneTraction(The CP FM and the TCA sets for certain)!

Thanks for all the replies and useful info. These units definitely have reversing units- circuit bds with a couple of relays on them. 

D500 posted:

Not quite on point, but it always creeps me out when I hear someone considering "scrapping/junking" model RR equipment because an electronic component has gone belly-up. These are just control boards; they can be replaced (as we know). This same solution applies to many mechanical components, too. This hobby used to be about making and fixing things...

A friend of mine (someone with way too much money, admittedly) some years ago threw an entire, die-cast MTH steam locomotive in the trash (it is somewhere in the landfill still, of course - and boxed!) simply because the PS-1 board had gone bad (knowing him, he probably messed up the chip, got mad, and just junked a scale model locomotive).  The whole thing still annoys me...what I could have done with that thing...

OK; whew. Fix it.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. They can be fixed economically for conventional operation.

phillyreading posted:

Dan65train posted:

I have an older Williams GG1 and there is no reversing unit in it.  It only runs forward and I believe that's how it was manufactured.  I don't know anything about the unit in question.

There should have been a reversing unit in the William GG-1. I have seen a lot of Williams engines and they always had a reversing unit. There might be a small micro switch on the frame on the bottom of your GG-1 that needs to be switched to on. Otherwise somebody took the reversing unit out.

Lee Fritz

Lee, the 25th TCA annv. GG1 did not have an revers unit.

To Gunrunner John:  $20 or less....would you mind e-m'ing me a source, please??

Thanks.

Just keep watching the for-sale forum here.  When I have them, that's typically what I get for them.

Thanks for all the replies and useful info. These units definitely have reversing units- circuit boards with a couple of relays on them. 

If those relays resemble a pair of small boxes at one end of the board, that may be a QSIndustries unit. Look for a QSI label on top. To replace it, contact Wayne Renga at J and W Electronics

Before that, check for loose wires, loose connections, loose/cracked solder joints [on the board or at the motor(s)], or a short against the frame. The adhesive foam pad that secures the board may have lost its grip or dried up. If a screw and a nut was used, they may have loosened up.

Also remove the trucks and check the worm gears. Sometimes grease cakes up in there. See whether the wheels and gears turn smoothly and easily. Maybe something worked its way in there.

Another topic mentioned brittle wires breaking on Williams illuminated passenger cars. That's another thing to check.

If the board isn't working, Williams and Dallee reverse boards and sound systems are good options, too.

Williams did offer a aftermarket electronic reverse unit around 1983. They didnt hold up very well. 

Lionel Parts posted:

phillyreading posted:

Dan65train posted:

I have an older Williams GG1 and there is no reversing unit in it.  It only runs forward and I believe that's how it was manufactured.  I don't know anything about the unit in question.

There should have been a reversing unit in the William GG-1. I have seen a lot of Williams engines and they always had a reversing unit. There might be a small micro switch on the frame on the bottom of your GG-1 that needs to be switched to on. Otherwise somebody took the reversing unit out.

Lee Fritz

Lee, the 25th TCA annv. GG1 did not have an revers unit.

That's interesting because every Williams engine that I have seen has a reversing unit in it. Must be very early Williams with a similar to Lionel MPC era motor in it.

All the Williams diesel engines I have seen have dual motors in the diesel engine, even the Crown Edition.

Lee Fritz

Heh.  I picked up an early Williams GG1 chassis on the Bay last year.  Not only did it not have a reversing unit, it only had one measly diode!  A Radio Shack rectifier bridge and nice big capacitor perked it up considerably.  Didn't bother with an E-unit, as it's a train show machine and only needs to go one direction while pulling a train of gi-raffes. 

Mitch

The original Williams GG1 did not have a reverse unit. They included instructions to install a Lionel unit. Williams was sued by the TCA because they advertised they will include a reverse unit at a later date on the 25th anniversary set GG1 around 1983. I can't remember the exact detals but someone in here may know more.