Open doors or no doors?

Definitely by installing doors wither open or closed fills in the opening that was designed for the lobster claw. That always is an improvement.

As for open or closed

Personnel preference would be my thought. You will find pics of F and E units being run with both. So modeling either way wouldn't be wrong.

Yard settings vs mainline operations.

Head unit doors closed. Trailing unit doors open.

A lot depends on the era one is modeling. During the early diesel era, 1940s thru mid to late 1950s, most railroads took the time & effort to have the doors closed on the lead unit. As time went on, late 1950s thru 1960s, the doors were primarily left open, or eventually completely removed in order to eliminate another maintenance headache.

CentralFan1976 posted:

 

Thanks!

Mario

And, of course, the so called "freight pilot" (on right) never had any doors.

Rusty

If you plan to use the front coupler  - you will have to leave it open. Otherwise I like the closed stream line look.

Are these doors available for separate purchase? Can't find them at Precision Scale.

Terry Danks posted:

Are these doors available for separate purchase? Can't find them at Precision Scale.

I purchased mine from P & D Hobby Shop.

I like the look of them open with the scale coupler.  Very cool looking detail!

Bob

RRDOC posted:

I like the look of them open with the scale coupler.  Very cool looking detail!

Bob

Ditto !

Ron

suzukovich posted:

Definitely by installing doors wither open or closed fills in the opening that was designed for the lobster claw. That always is an improvement.

As for open or closed

Personnel preference would be my thought. You will find pics of F and E units being run with both. So modeling either way wouldn't be wrong.

Yard settings vs mainline operations.

Head unit doors closed. Trailing unit doors open.

Believe it or not, this is actually a P&D Hobby passenger pilot, and the mega-hole is for 2-rail F units. But... They are designed for use with the pilot doors. 

Heres the install: https://ogrforum.com/t.../lowering-lionel-f3s

The Lionel passenger pilots are correct for those after the doors were removed. 

Thanks!

Mario

Ron H posted:

RRDOC posted:

I like the look of them open with the scale coupler.  Very cool looking detail!

Bob

Ditto !

Ron

I think this is growing on me. 

Thanks everyone!

Some sunshiny pictures...

Scale opening with scale coupler.  I looked at all my photos of SAL cab units and have only one that shows the doors closed, most have no doors at all, just the opening.

Bob Delbridge posted:

Scale opening with scale coupler.  I looked at all my photos of SAL cab units and have only one that shows the doors closed, most have no doors at all, just the opening.

But,,,,,,,what are the dates/time frame of those photos?

In my S Scale world, the coupler covers are part of of a plug that fills the gap used for Flyer compatible couplers.

I carefully cut away and re-positioned the covers to open one up on one of my former SHS F3's:

For my American Models Texas Special E8's (yeah, I know they should be E7's...) I did the same for the trailing unit, but left the lead unit's untouched:

My AM CB&Q and IC E8's represent later operations where the covers are completely removed:

By the way, there's one E-unit that retained it's coupler covers throughout time, CB&Q E5 9911:

Of course, the E5's are simply hinged and open up like a barn door.  I've been told cranking out the nose buffer is a real pain, though.

Rusty

Stegmaier's book on PRR Mainline passenger service shows  DGLE/5-stripe E-7's (therefore pre-1952 or thereabouts) with pilot doors closed. In my queue for upgrading my 3rd Rail E-7's along with passenger pilots, at least on the lead unit.

Mock up... Voila!!!

My choice: Front doors closed

CP's E8 series were run with the doors during their early years but they disappeared fairly early.

Hot Water posted:

Bob Delbridge posted:

Scale opening with scale coupler.  I looked at all my photos of SAL cab units and have only one that shows the doors closed, most have no doors at all, just the opening.

But,,,,,,,what are the dates/time frame of those photos?

The OP didn't ask, but they're before July, 1967.

Great information and images.

John Sethian posted:

My choice: Front doors closed

John, it's not fair. You're not allowed to vote because your modeling is the penultimate expression of what I'm trying to achieve!

Thoughts? 

For a dedicated lead unit, I would lose the coupler and close the doors, but......

with the Protocraft coupler on the point then I would put the doors on.   

I like your model with the pilot doors closed.

I prefer the closed look. I also model a 1945-1955 era range which, as hot water alludes to above, lends itself to lead unit door closed look. 

Then again I only model steam right now.  The only diesel I have on order is an Alco PA/PB set (UP) from Sunset 3rd Rail. I believe Scott mentioned somewhere that the fixed pilots will have the open look.

It sure would be nice if he included a pop-in "closed door" piece for buyers who might want one....

I prefer the "ready for action" appearance implied with the doors open.

Closed looks better, that's why they were put there.

Unless your gonna use it, close it. If your engine is shiny and new, your doors should work fine. 

Two couplers are for B units anyhow

Adriatic posted:

Two couplers are for B units anyhow

Um, no.  Two couplers are for every locomotive and piece of rolling stock.

Welcome back!

Some changes that I've made were...

First, I added the tapered cut levers, and second, I stripped and repainted (twice) the doors to get a smoother appearance and appropriate sheen. 

Whatcha think?

ecd15 posted:

Adriatic posted:

Two couplers are for B units anyhow

Um, no.  Two couplers are for every locomotive and piece of rolling stock.

Yep, kind of hard to do more than a light engine move, with an A-A, A-B-A, A-B-B-A, etc. set with only one coupler on an "A" unit

Doug

Update:

Upon the successful completion of the Aquisition and subsequent 3RS-ing of the other A unit (1607), this will be relegated to the trailing A unit. This will mean the replacement of the Protocraft coupler with a functioning Kadee, in the original position. The new lead unit will have a P&D Hobby passenger pilot and closed coupler doors. 

Thanks,

Mario

Well, I really like the paint.  I have been struggling to get a good lightning stripe paint job on an E-7, and cannot even come close.  I like the track too - you cannot tell . . .

As to the coupler, I am a coupler freak.  I like the looks of a good scale coupler.  Often the front of my locomotives will get a full scale Janney coupler, like the Scale Craft or Proto-craft.  I don't hide those babies.

bob2 posted:

Well, I really like the paint.  I have been struggling to get a good lightning stripe paint job on an E-7, and cannot even come close.  I like the track too - you cannot tell . . .

As to the coupler, I am a coupler freak.  I like the looks of a good scale coupler.  Often the front of my locomotives will get a full scale Janney coupler, like the Scale Craft or Proto-craft.  I don't hide those babies.

Definitely. 

Protocraft deserves to be shown off. 

Close 'em if you got 'em.

I gots em! Lol!