NECRAILS,

I feel your pain. Over the years,I have been in and out of a couple of train clubs here in Southern California. I think I may be done with that. It's just me. I made an effort to talk to fellow members, with mixed results. I am by nature a very quiet person so extending myself in that regard was a character building exercise for me. With a couple of exceptions, I was largely ignored,  and there was no interest paid. I will tell you that I have observed that most public model train events are unmitigated public relations disasters. Participants by and large ignore the public, or (this really passes all understanding) actually scowl at the public!

Misanthropes and "characters" do the train hobby no good. Folks with basic social skills should be able to be in public for a couple of hours with out causing undue harm....Maybe it's too much to ask. 

I appreciated your observations very much, it is a real concern.

John

I had a similar experience with a group of N scalers more than a few years ago when my son was just a little guy. The group had a store front in a local mall and was open to the public and i thought my son would enjoy watching the trains run while I inquired about possible membership. Upon entering we received no welcome or even an acknowledgement of our presence; in fact those present seemed intent on hoping we'd go away as soon as possible so they could resume whatever it was that captured their attention. They got their wish and I never went back.

Jim Mc.

There seems to be a certain group of people who do not know how to interact with anyone outside of their field.  I've witnessed it many times in my life.  It may be through no fault of their own.  Perhaps they were not taught properly.  Perhaps they were taught that they were the center of the universe.  Who knows ?   But I will agree with the two previous posters about members of our hobby.  Perhaps we are more sensitive to odd behavior because it is our hobby.  I used to frequent a hobby shop in Huntingdon Valley, Pa.  The owners were a father and son.  The father was congenial, but his son seemed to have a rather large chip on his shoulder.   I saw him belittle customers because they didn't know something about an item and asked the wrong question.  As a kid, I had a bad experience with a hardware store that sold trains, on Castor Ave in NE Philly.  

We all have days that do not go according to the way we would have liked them to go.  But when you are the proprietor or even a clerk at any establishment, you must remember who is paying your bills or ultimately your salary.  The same goes for open houses.  Most ask for a donation, some charge admission.   The best way to know how to treat other people is to reverse the situation.  That old saying, Do unto others as you would like to have them do unto you.   

Come to ours and you'll never have those problems.

I will say this - it's been my experience that those modeling the smaller scales are often less sociable.  Perhaps it's the fact O-Gauge has always, in part, been viewed as "toy" trains to be played with whereas the smaller scales tend to be "modeled" and modelers, by nature, tend to be more serious and less outgoing.

-Greg

I take pride in the way our club interacts with visitors.  Whenever a post like this pops up I send it to every member to remind them what matters to visitors.  Come see our layout in Paterson and I guarantee you will not be disappointed

I 2nd (3rd?)  Ben & Greg's opinion.  We get many repeat visitors who all say they have a wonderful time.  As opposed to clubs whose members don't want to interact with visitors we have many, many members who will chew your ear off (present company included.)    You're about 45 minutes from our club.  Come to one of our December shows and see what a friendly club is like (or better yet JOIN!)  Our schedule can be found on our web site. NJ Hi-Railers Show Dates

Many (perhaps most) train hobbyists are comfortable working "solo" on their layout in the train room or hanging out at a club layout with buddies. A public forum with non-train folks is a very different setting, so many hobbyists may feel like a "fish out of water." Best-kept secret solution ... let the wives of members be the socializers -- at the entryway, at the layouts, at exhibits, at the snack table, and at the exit. Although most wives may not be train-knowledgeable, they know how to introduce visitors who show an interest in the hobby to their train nut husband.  Further, kids tend to gravitate to mom-like women.

Hobbyists may like to believe they are approachable by visitors who are novices to the hobby, but the first sentence of techno talk is off-putting and intimidating to newbies who may not yet know what the red wire and the black wire are for.

Suggestion: assign the approachable and talkative club members at the entryway and assign the socially-challenged members to set-up beforehand and clean-up afterwards. Give recognition to members who recruit new members and scold members who may drive away visitors. After two scoldings, steer that member away from any public contact until he/she is socially redeemed.

Let the FUN of the hobby shine through.

Mike M.    LCCA 12394

Jersey guys are social animals! We all have our own thing. I spent a lot of time running the coal tipple, which has a button for little children to operate it (when I also push the control button). I ask the children what grade they're in (I always tell them they look older than they are), if they've been good, are they having fun, etc. It's really not very hard, it is fun and little kids are great. 

I think we've even had a couple of the parents sign up for the club.

Gerry

The NJ Hi-Railers kick butt. Can I say that on here? You'll be hard pressed to meet a better bunch of folks - each one an ambassador to the hobby. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. 

I went to a club once in PA with a friend. They had two layouts. Downstairs they a predominantly 3 rail O gauge layout but it also loops for 2 rail O and S scale. Upstairs was a HO layout. When we walked in the O gauge guys were totally awesome! They were very friendly. They answered all of our questions and even let me go into "members only area" in the center of the layout to take pictures. They were very enthusiastic, very engaging to people they never met before. We had a great time. Then we decided to see the HO layout upstairs. When we got upstairs we were surprised by the silence. All the HO guys were in the center of their layout. No one was talking. Not a Hello or How are you when we entered. Both myself and my friend could feel a tension in the air. I can't explain it but we got the feeling we weren't wanted there and they were only opening the layout to visitors because they had to. To be fair they didn't do anything rude to us they just ignored us. I would go back to see the O gauge layout again but next time I will pass on going upstairs.

I have been to the NJ Hi Railers many times and I agree with the above. Those guys are great! They always make you feel welcome and are very friendly. They have a real passion for this hobby and are great ambassadors.

IMO, if you are going to open your layout to people you have to engage them.  I always try to explain the basic idea of the layout, how I it operates, why I did what I did, etc.  I always try to answer there questions (some things I have forgotten, overtime) but I try!  I always have pop/water/coffee on hand to offer to my visitors. I figure if they take the time out of there day to see my layout, then they certainly deserve my attention/hospitality while they are there. Just be friendly and help them enjoy there visit. Not much to it!!!

Jeff

What he said!  Can't say it any better.

Don't be hard on the HO and N people. They are very busy running their railroads. We O and S folks enjoy playing with our trains...and it shows.

I doubt that social skills are going to improve very much in the newest generation either.  How do you learn to interact with people when you have your head buried in your cell phone all day?  That's my rant for today.

We went to a restaurant last night and I ordered the salad bar and my wife the chicken pot pie special.  The server came over when my wife was at the salad bar and informed me that the pot pie would take 18 minutes and is that OK?  I said sure we weren't in any hurry and would tell my wife.  When the server brought two pot pies to the table, I asked who the second one was for?  She gave me a very easily detected "stink eye" and said she told me that they would be late.  I tried to politely remind her that I did not order one, but my wife did.  She rolled her eyes and took the second pot pie and plopped it down at a customer two tables away.   Then she brought our check over to the table, didn't offer any drink refills, and never came back.  

I recently had 39 people at my get-together/open house and tried to interact with all of them while running trains, solving problems, answering questions, and hoping to make my old and new friends feel comfortable and glad that they came.  It wouldn't surprise me if I learned that somebody felt left out or under-appreciated.  I hope not, but I find it is getting harder to multi-task as I get older.  That's not meant as an excuse, but it really is getting harder to do two things at once.

One last thought.  It takes two to tango.  Meaning if you are waiting patiently in the corner for someone to come over and engage in conversation, you may be part of the problem.  If you are out-going and friendly, you are much easier to strike up a conversation with.  And more fun as well.  Help some of these socially awkward people by being the conversation starter, take the bull by the horns.

Art

Dear NECRAILS , et al,

 Great thread on a timely topic !!

I have been involved with open houses since is was 16(I am now 62) with both my HO and O scale 2 rail model railroad clubs so I have seen it all.

Please remember open houses are a two way street- Club members should be respectful and courteous to our guests as well as guests should be respectful and courteous to our club environment -we are inviting them into our "home'.

At the Cherry Valley club we make every effort to promote our Club and hobby.

When the guest first arrives they are greeted by our door greeter and a table set up which local train club flyers , hobby shop information and NMRA handouts. We also asked how they heard of our Club and also ask if they would give us their email address to keep them informed of future Club events

We also have our donation lexan box for our guests to put in a donation if they would like-we do not or will ever change a admission fee.

In the layout room- which is cleaned and vacuumed each day- we have "spotters" at certain locations which serve a duel purpose of making sure trains run smoothly and act as the Club and the hobbies ambassadors.

They also make sure all hands-young and old- are kept behind the Lexan protective shield.

 Because we are a 0 scale 2 rail Club, most of our guests have never seen O scale 2 rail and many have mistaken for S scale or they want to know where a center rail is !!

We developed a neat idea to show the different scales by a display of PRR GG1'S from Z to G scale. I will try to include a photo in attachments.

As in all clubs and walks of life there a people that are introverted to the point that some view as ignorant or rude, these folks are just plain scared to talk to people

I have been a independent insurance agent for 42 years and have also a few more sales and professional  members and we have no problems speaking to our guests to make them welcome and tell others of our Club and also let them know we are actively looking for new members, regardless of which scale they model in or if they are new to the wonderful hobby of Model Railroading.

Please come join us. Our Club open house info is in the calendar section of OGR Forum.

John P. Dunn Sr. President CVMRR

This past weekend was the final weekend of the Atlanta area Piedmont Pilgrimage, a six week tour of home layouts sponsored by the local NMRA chapter.  Each weekend, as many as 12-14 layouts are open to the public.

While I have encountered some poor people skills while taking the tour over the years  (the layout owner who upon learning I was a 3-railer  promptly turned and walked away comes to mind); the vast majority of layout owners go out of their way to engage each visitor even if only for a few minutes.  This interaction is aided by the fact that the layout owner has other NMRA members operating the trains which allows the host to mingle with visitors and answer questions.

The O gauge club I belong to has our club layout in a Hobbytown in Kennesaw, GA.  When we are hosting an “open house”, we always have members who aren’t running trains at that moment available to engage with people and answer questions.  Similar to the layout owners on the Piedmont tour; this allows people running trains to focus on the task at hand while still having people who can interact with visitors.

Curt

In my (admittedly little) experience, many of the clubs are in existence simply to propagate the club.  Said clubs have a small core group who enjoy each other's company and are interested in new members only insofar as it boosts the club's coffers.  They do not want your company.  Not ALL clubs are this way but many are.  Exclusive not inclusive.

I have noticed the bigger the trains, the friendlier the bunch. I went to an HO club once and when it came time for the meeting I was told they didn't allow guests at the meeting while they discussed splitting the atom. Never went back. 

Not sure if anyone in Las Vegas has any O gauge.

The G bunch is much more friendly and set up modular displays at places like the power company lobby and car dealers. Usually around holidays. 

I like the idea of having a "greeter" like Walmart.

The NJHR do a bang up job for us with Trainstock although different from a regular open house, of which they have many, I'm sure that bunch is just at home sharing their layout with visitors as well as us here on the Forum.  Ben, the president, forwarding e-mails like the original post to all members is a good sign they realize how to be good hosts.  They even have that kitchen set-up to offer snacks and refreshments to open house visitors.

If you open your layout to the public you must be prepared to deal with and interact with your "guests". Otherwise why have an open house.

I belong to a modular club and do around three layout tours at my home most years. The modular club can be a little hectic to interact while your running a train that you need to keep at least one eye on making sure things are running smooth. I never dodge anyone who has a question though. One of our members likes to start a conversation and then pull another member into the discussion so he can move on to the next visitor. I think he hasn't actually ran a train for a couple years even though he brings them to the shows!

At home, my wife enjoys the social interaction as much as I do with guests and will frequently be my co-host when it gets busy. I always strive to offer a friendly hello to all visitors and answer any questions I can.

Joe Hohmann posted:

Don't be hard on the HO and N people. They are very busy running their railroads. We O and S folks enjoy playing with our trains...and it shows.

I always say the O Gauge guys are busy running their trains, while the N Scale guys are busy putting their trains back on the tracks!

NYC Z-MAN posted:

I always say the O Gauge guys are busy running their trains, while the N Scale guys are busy putting their trains back on the tracks!

Or they are busy cleaning the track so the trains run ok.

I open the layout every December, have quite a few Christmas lights and displays. It's a large layout in Hiram, Maine; can accommodate 20-25 visitors comfortably at any one time.

The environment has always been cheerful and celebratory, with lots of kids of every age. People enjoy watching the trains run. Our club (Maine 3 Railers) participates in several events every year - I have trouble relating to the unhappy environments described above. Of course, the presenters set the tone for the event...

I've learned two lessons for a successful event...

Set up only for continuous loop running. I can run four independent loops. This leaves me relatively free to chat with the visitors and answer questions.

Shut down the power to circuits controlling the turnouts. The lighted switches on track panels are irresistible to little fingers, leading to dramatic misadventures.

This is a great season for sharing our layouts!

Jan

If you are an OGR Forum member, come to visit the New Munoz Lines in Carmel, NY and bring your family. You will enjoy your visit and we'll make certain the kids get to run the trains. Isn't that what it is all about?

My 2 cents...

I wholeheartedly agree with about 99% of what has been said above.  Lots of good suggestions regarding how to make visitors feel welcome.

I don't think that it's "young people and their focus on phones, lack of interaction with others", etc.  The worst actors at exhibitions and open houses are people who've been around the block several times.

Considering the extent to which autistic folks are drawn to trains, I wonder if a lot of us would be diagnosed as being on the spectrum if we were youngsters now.  And many of the activities involved with model / toy trains don't require people skills, so perhaps those who lack such skills are disproportionately drawn to the hobby.

Every sector of the hobby has its bigots.  I've met too many people who look down on rivet counters, or those who don't care about rivets, operators, loop runners, modular guys, users of digital control, non-users of digital control, etc.  Some human beings just take themselves too seriously.  The train hobby is not unique in this regard.

I've never understood why anyone would denigrate how others choose to participate in the train hobby, but it happens.

Regarding getting kids involved, Trainfest had a number of layouts where kids could operate the trains, often with a DCC throttle.  Unfortunately, I saw several such stations which were not manned, but I also saw lots of people patiently showing youngsters how to run trains.  There may have been a crash or two, but the sun came up the next morning.  I hope that Trainfest does this again next year.

But perhaps my main observation is that the people who should be reading this topic and recognizing themselves and their clubs, won't.

NYC Z-MAN posted:

Joe Hohmann posted:

Don't be hard on the HO and N people. They are very busy running their railroads. We O and S folks enjoy playing with our trains...and it shows.

I always say the O Gauge guys are busy running their trains, while the N Scale guys are busy putting their trains back on the tracks!

I have run and operated on many model railroads from N to G gauge.  It has been my experience that the N scale layouts operate better than any other scale.  You will consistently see 50 to 100 car trains running on modular displays without derailments, broken couplers or other issues.  I operate on a large N scale home layout.  The typical freight is pulled by two or three diesels consisted together or a couple of cab forwards and 30 to 40 cars.  The passenger cars are scale length and pulled by A-B-B-A sets of diesels.  A typical passenger train is 13 cars long.  They all operate flawlessly and I have never seen Zinc pest of DCS or TMCC issues.  I have a lot more problems with my 3-rail layout than my N scale friends have with their layouts.  That said, I still prefer 3-rail O and I will never go to N scale.  It is too small for me.  

Back to the topic.  Most of my club's members make a huge effort to welcome guests.  The vast majority of  visitors tell us that they have a great time at our open houses.  Sometimes, however, we fumble the ball.  All of us in this hobby need to treat visitors to our open houses as we would want to be treated when we visit another club.  NH Joe

Being from the same general area as the O.P. I can make a fairly good guess as to the club that was visited (it's the one off Route 22, I suppose?) and am kind of giggling because I took my kids there for one of their Thanksgiving/Xmas open houses 30 years ago and it was exactly the same then. A bunch of alte kakers (that's Yiddish...you can Google it) who only wanted to generate revenue via their admission fee and had no interest at all in engaging with the visitors. So I'm giggling because 30 years later, they haven't changed at all. I guess they old guys then are dead now and the guys who were young then have turned into the crusty old jerks now. It's a wonder their club is still in existence, but they're in a high density population area so maybe they have no trouble getting new members.

On the other hand, I can also attest to the fact that the NJ Hi-Railers are very friendly, interested in talking with folks and answering questions. A couple of years ago one of them actually brought me underneath the big mountain in the middle when I expressed a special interest in how they did their scenery since I was at the same point in building my layout.

It must be the 3 rails that's the difference because the people in the 2-Rail O Scale club in Carlstadt weren't the friendliest bunch either.

As a member of a the San Diego 3-Railers, a lot of this stuff above has similarities to what I’ve seen

As our club is a occupant of space with the San Diego Model Railroad Museum, we are probably the only club that interacts with the public the most. 3 of the 5 layouts are fully enclosed with windows but have openings to talk to members of the public.  The 4th layout is half open to interact and other half is enclosed with glass. 

Nothing against the other clubs in the museum. But as the 5th layout, out club interacts with people and our board encourages this. The reason why is at the end of the day you may have got someone or two to join the club. 

I enjoy it because you never know that they are a forum member or a member of another club. I know that at the end of the day, someone left knowing that this is a great place to visit.

Our club, Ocean County Society of Model Railroaders, has an open invite policy. Call us, leave a message, someone will call you back. We are there Tuesdays and Fridays nights so it might take a few days to respond. Or email is from the website. We encourage folks to bring the younger ones and we let them use the remotes.

NYC Z-MAN posted:

I belong to a modular club and do around three layout tours at my home most years. The modular club can be a little hectic to interact while your running a train that you need to keep at least one eye on making sure things are running smooth. I never dodge anyone who has a question though. One of our members likes to start a conversation and then pull another member into the discussion so he can move on to the next visitor. I think he hasn't actually ran a train for a couple years even though he brings them to the shows!

At home, my wife enjoys the social interaction as much as I do with guests and will frequently be my co-host when it gets busy. I always strive to offer a friendly hello to all visitors and answer any questions I can.

I'm not great at public stuff. Sometimes it can just get awkward. Whenever I've been to Jim's house or seen him at shows, I've had a great time. He goes out of his way to answer questions and show anything you see that your interested in. His wife is great to speak with too.

 He has the best little daughter you could dream of. She makes me smile just typing this. I think she likes the interaction of guests coming over. Also makes the visit super special. He has a great family. 

 When his club's layout is somewhere, I go out of my way to make sure I at least see him or see if he's there. Once, he was busy doing show stuff like unpacking cars and other stuff. I actually tried to avoid him, to let him get it done. He must have spotted me and walked towards me. It was like seeing an old friend somewhere. Made the trip to the show worth it just for that interaction that followed. Great guy.

 I went to the NJHR's club for the Trainstock #3 show. All the members were great. One in particular went out of his way to make sure I was interacted with for some serious time. Others would check in and see how the conversation was going. It appeared that members would assign themselves to guests in general and pass off when something went to another's expertise.

 I think I'll never forget just that one show, and how you are made to feel like family or at least part of the club.... and then there's the food which is out of this world great. I wish I lived closer as my girl hates traveling in winter. I'm happy if the roads aren't closed.

 I was also supposed to go to the Cherry Creek club. I contacted them to see if they were open. We were touring NYC stuff for the day and never made it. I called to let them know. They were even nice on the phone and I know I missed out on another great club to visit. I said we'd go try again and it's never been done so far. So I still regret not going there.

 I think there are some people in the hobby, that aren't as good socially. They don't have to be and still enjoy the trains. Some people may over value their toys and think that they are owed something special for just having them. There are many different club members here on the forum, that I could consider friends and I have never even met them in person. This is an interesting hobby just for the different types of people that are involved.

I don't have an "open House" (to small it's full of railroads!) but visitors are always welcome as long as they contact me first.

In our military association there are strict rules that no one is to be left standing around by themselves at the club rooms the committee members make sure that doesn't happen.

Roo. 

I have a "how to" run an open house for model sailing clubs- and modified it for model railroading clubs.  It's too long for a post, so it is attached.

Mike

I appreciate the great number of thoughtful responses.  Without naming the club there was a person who guessed correctly.  I selected the location simply because it is close to home and retirement is becoming a bit boring.  A friend told me retirement is hard, I didn't believe him until now.  I agree other clubs I have visited have been welcoming.  Ben at NJ High Railers makes everyone welcome, the San Diego folks were welcoming as well.  And their description of the degree of interaction with the other scales at that location was completely accurate with the notable exception of the gentleman who was running the small garden railroad.  One of the challenges of attempting to engage with an organization that is new to anyone is there is an established hierarchy, folks know each other, the back and forth banter flows.  I am looking forward to visiting some of the other local 3 rail clubs, perhaps I have something to offer to those organizations, perhaps not.

I have a sense that most groups, not just model railroading groups, have similar problems with similar people. Some of the comments above seem to indicate that model railroaders may be introverted, socially-awkward, or cliquish. Perhaps, but I've been to gatherings related to manufacturing, information technology, military, and the like and found a similar cross-section of people. Think about the retail personnel we deal with as consumers. Similar cross-section. My guess is model railroaders are no better and no worse.  One bad first experience hopefully won't turn a prospective hobbyist away. The next visit might be a lot better.

Engineer-Joe posted:

NYC Z-MAN posted:

I belong to a modular club and do around three layout tours at my home most years. The modular club can be a little hectic to interact while your running a train that you need to keep at least one eye on making sure things are running smooth. I never dodge anyone who has a question though. One of our members likes to start a conversation and then pull another member into the discussion so he can move on to the next visitor. I think he hasn't actually ran a train for a couple years even though he brings them to the shows!

At home, my wife enjoys the social interaction as much as I do with guests and will frequently be my co-host when it gets busy. I always strive to offer a friendly hello to all visitors and answer any questions I can.

I'm not great at public stuff. Sometimes it can just get awkward. Whenever I've been to Jim's house or seen him at shows, I've had a great time. He goes out of his way to answer questions and show anything you see that your interested in. His wife is great to speak with too.

 He has the best little daughter you could dream of. She makes me smile just typing this. I think she likes the interaction of guests coming over. Also makes the visit super special. He has a great family. 

 When his club's layout is somewhere, I go out of my way to make sure I at least see him or see if he's there. Once, he was busy doing show stuff like unpacking cars and other stuff. I actually tried to avoid him, to let him get it done. He must have spotted me and walked towards me. It was like seeing an old friend somewhere. Made the trip to the show worth it just for that interaction that followed. Great guy.

 I went to the NJHR's club for the Trainstock #3 show. All the members were great. One in particular went out of his way to make sure I was interacted with for some serious time. Others would check in and see how the conversation was going. It appeared that members would assign themselves to guests in general and pass off when something went to another's expertise.

 I think I'll never forget just that one show, and how you are made to feel like family or at least part of the club.... and then there's the food which is out of this world great. I wish I lived closer as my girl hates traveling in winter. I'm happy if the roads aren't closed.

 I was also supposed to go to the Cherry Creek club. I contacted them to see if they were open. We were touring NYC stuff for the day and never made it. I called to let them know. They were even nice on the phone and I know I missed out on another great club to visit. I said we'd go try again and it's never been done so far. So I still regret not going there.

 I think there are some people in the hobby, that aren't as good socially. They don't have to be and still enjoy the trains. Some people may over value their toys and think that they are owed something special for just having them. There are many different club members here on the forum, that I could consider friends and I have never even met them in person. This is an interesting hobby just for the different types of people that are involved.

Joe, Thanks for the kind words! On a side note, I sent an invite to your forum email address back in late October for the annual WNY Layout Tours and I didn't see or hear back from you. Is your forum email current? I know it was short notice, but there's a guy on Grand Island who has an 2 rail O scale layout and has scratch built most of his locomotives and rolling stock from brass. Something I'm certain you would enjoy. I haven't seen it in person yet, but the pictures I've seen are incredible. I may get a private showing and will certainly invite you to attend.

At our last show, 11/18/2018, and all the other ones we do, I can tell you I see our members interact with the public, men, women, children all the time. We do our best make sure everyone is welcome, questions answered, history provided. We do whatever it takes to make our guest comfortable.

Sad to hear that others had a bad experience.

Come to Long Island to the TMB Open House. (Our web page which contains the open house details is embedded in my signature line)

We always have a greeter at the door, never charge admission and have a member on the street to coordinate parking and always have a few members in the aisle to meet with our guests answer any questions and chat up the layout.

On the occasion that I get to visit another club during an open house event, I cant say that I have ever ignored by the host club and have always been well received. Also being a club guy myself and conducting open house events for 22 years I can identify when something is wrong and the members are focused on fixing the issue.

To bad for that HO club....

Sorry Jim Z. !

It was near the end of the football season for our grandson. He's pretty close to me and my train buddy. So I went to every one of his football games that I could. We get to watch him sometimes and had to take him to his practices too. We were real busy and I forgot all about that email until right now!