Operating Lionel Command Control Accessory with MTH DCS

If you can wire the sawmill for conventional control, do so but use a DCS AIU accessory port instead of a control panel-mounted switch. Then, enter the sawmill as an accessory in the DCS Remote.

Thanks Barry I've previously done that and by cutting off the Powermaster I can control the sawmill using the DCS Remote through an AIU accessory port.  The problem is there is no way rewire the sawmill.  As long as the powermaster is on the sawmill requires an address.  Cut off the Powermaster and it will operate conventionally.  I discovered the problem when I first tested it connected to a transformer but when installed on the layout Nothing.  I even checked and read the voltage at the power plug on the sawmill circuit board.

TLWhiteJr posted:

Thanks Barry I've previously done that and by cutting off the Powermaster I can control the sawmill using the DCS Remote through an AIU accessory port.  The problem is there is no way rewire the sawmill.  As long as the powermaster is on the sawmill requires an address.  Cut off the Powermaster and it will operate conventionally.  I discovered the problem when I first tested it connected to a transformer but when installed on the layout Nothing.  I even checked and read the voltage at the power plug on the sawmill circuit board.

Hi there, I recently ran into a similar problem and am hoping you can help.  I run a DCS WiFi layout for Christmas and bought a Command Controlled Sawmill.  I don’t have any CC or Lionel TMCC products at this point.  Is it possible to wire this in such a way that I can use it without purchasing something else from Lionel?  If so, how would I do that?  Thanks for whatever help you can provide.

seth

Hi Seth,

I ended up doing what Barry suggested: wiring the sawmill to a MTH AIU port and controlling it with my DCS handheld.  Then I removed the Lionel Powermaster from the layout and went to the expense of converting my TMCC engines to MTH DCS.  Since I assume you have no Lionel Powermaster this should be an easy solution.  Just don't connect a Lionel Powermaster to your layout.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Never thought of disconnecting the sawmill antenna but logically it would be the same as removing the TMCC powermaster and it should work fine as any other accessory.  Since DCS only operates an off/on switch in the connected AIU the issue should be resolved.

Tom

TLWhiteJr posted:

Hi Seth,

I ended up doing what Barry suggested: wiring the sawmill to a MTH AIU port and controlling it with my DCS handheld.  Then I removed the Lionel Powermaster from the layout and went to the expense of converting my TMCC engines to MTH DCS.  Since I assume you have no Lionel Powermaster this should be an easy solution.  Just don't connect a Lionel Powermaster to your layout.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Tom,

Thanks so much for the reply.  So I’m still a little confused about how the wiring needs to go.  I do not currently have the AIU - is that something I would need to add?  What wires would I use and how would I connect them?  Sorry I’m not more astute with this!  This is my first experience with Lionel accessories, and I’m finding them a little frustrating.  :-)

Well, Lionel or MTH accessories would require something to switch them, in the case of DCS, that's the AIU.

Unless Lionel has reconfigured it (and I doubt it has) it should run right out of the box with only 18VAC (track or accessory power) applied to the sawmill terminals, or your sawmill may be defective.  All the MTH AIU is is a box of electrical switches which you attach to a MTH TIU (Track Interface Unit) that transmits instructions from your DCS to your accessories which are attached to an Accessory Interface Unit (AIU), and train engines that receive their control signals from the TIU through the track.

You stated you were using DCS and a WiFi. That implies you are using MTH's hardware (transformers, TIU's, AIU's and WiFi) as DCS is an MTH control system.  It occurs to me that you may only be using a transformer or you have a DCC system which is not MTH.

It would help to know what specific components you are using to run your train. I really think your sawmill may be defective.  It won't be the first accessory to be DOA.

Tom

Is this command-control version of the sawmill "simply" the original/classic sawmill with a command-control receiver whose singular function is ON-OFF control?  

Has anyone opened up the command control version and posted some photos of the electronics?  I'm wondering if it's "just" a matter of disconnecting a wire or two and routing these wires to a on-off slide switch as in the original sawmill (or to a MTH DCS AIU). 

Hey All,

Sorry I wasn’t very clear in my initial description of my problem.  I have an MTH TIU and WIU but not AIU - I’m using it to run my trains from my iPhone.  To this point, all of my accessories have been wired by me to the accessory side of my Z-4000 transformer.  I saw the North Pole Sawmill and thought my kids would enjoy it.  It arrived (ordered from Kohl’s), and I realized that there is seemingly no way to activate it, though I understand that I can either snip the end or connect it to a Lionel pigtail to power it as it is Command Controlled (https://www.kohls.com/product/...shop-with-sounds.jsp).  I want to be able to return it if I’m not going to be able to get it to work with my layout, so I haven’t tried to power it up or anything - I thought I’d come to the forum to see what others have experienced with this. 

I appreciate all the help!

Seth

Let's see if I understand.  You have other accessories directly powered by the Z-4000 Accessory Output - no remote control via iPhone.  Any existing accessories that benefit from on-off control are done so manually with an activation switch.  And now you're asking how to wire the Sawmill directly to same Accessory Output - again with no remote control via iPhone? 

The matter at hand is to identify (if they exist) 2-wires that attach the Z-4000 Accessory output to make the sawmill operate. 

Then, once above matter is resolved, the MTH AIU would be an option to provide remote on-off control.

Yes!  That’s exactly right.  Since I haven’t used the AIU I was confused on what exactly it does.  I’m wondering what the white wire in the Lionel pigtail does.  Could that be wired to hot to provide an activation button?

Tonight I’m going to try wiring the white wire to an on/off switch to see if, by change that would activate it.  In reading other threads it appears the white is used for such purposes on other accessories.  I’ll report back what I discover.  

The white wire is there so it can function for accessories that utilize it. 

For accessories that don't utilize the white wire, the pigtail white wire will have no effect.  It doesn't matter that the white wire on the pigtail does this for other accessories, if the accessory in question is not designed for on/off switch operation, the white wire will do nothing.

-Dave

SandJam posted:

 

...as it would be cheaper to return it and get a non command one.

In an albeit brief search, I could not find an original/classic sawmill in the Santa North Pole theme?  Perhaps that is part of the issue here?

...I did a video on this sawmill and had it apart and it has a command board and antenna that the motor is wired to for operation

Does your video show enough detail to determine how it is internally wired?  Maybe not for this case but could be useful "for the record" for the determined DIY'ers out there.  Kind of reminds me of guys who get a command-control engine, take out the "sophisticated" electronics (and sell it on eBay or wherever!) and downgrade to a basic reversing unit because that's all they want!

In this case I was wondering if, in additional to the command board, there is a new and separate sound board not found in the original sawmill.

So I spoke to Lionel tech support today, and they told me to wire the white wire on the pigtail to hot and the accessory should work without issue.  When I connected the red and black to hot and common via the pigtail the sawmill came to life - it didn’t require the white wire at all.  Apparently the instructions aren’t particularly clear that this accessory may be run in a conventional mode, but it worked!

Thanks for all the feedback you all offered, and I’m going to watch the video Sean made to make sure my equipment doesn’t jam.  Hope you all have a great Christmas!

TUGreystones posted:

So I spoke to Lionel tech support today, and they told me to wire the white wire on the pigtail to hot and the accessory should work without issue.  When I connected the red and black to hot and common via the pigtail the sawmill came to life - it didn’t require the white wire at all.  Apparently the instructions aren’t particularly clear that this accessory may be run in a conventional mode, but it worked!

Thanks for all the feedback you all offered, and I’m going to watch the video Sean made to make sure my equipment doesn’t jam.  Hope you all have a great Christmas!

That's good info for conventional operators, but they should really add that to the manual.  Unless they are on the forum how would they know to do that?   

I wonder if they made a change to the sawmills for conventional mode too but never updated the manuals.

I pulled off the top and the white wire on mine goes no where.  Just the Red & Black.  the white is snipped off inside the sawmill.

I tried that with mine (which is the original command model) and it does nothing when power is applied.  Only when I give it an address and command.  Seems to vary by version?  Even Lionel doesn't seem to know as they told you to use the white wire, lol.

So you should be able to just wire in a switch on one of the leads and you are set.

I just had a thought.  Maybe it is the absence of a Lionel Command signal that makes it run conventionally.  Kind of like the locomotives.

I have always had a command signal on my layout, so mine would never work conventionally.

That would kind of follow what TLWHITE JR experienced with his powermaster?