Opinions on PS3 sounds

I have a MTH Dash 8 with PS3.  I enjoy the improved start up sounds and the horn.  Lionel has had MTH beat in the sound department for many years.  I believe MTH may be catching up.

I have 11 MTH locomotives. 2 are PS3, the rest are PS2. I find the PS3 to be lacking in sounds and PS2 much richer and "full" as well as loud and "in your face". Not to say PS3 isn't good, I find it is lacking. 

 

I have two GP9s, one PS3 and one PS2. The PS2 is much louder and much better quality. 

I'm happy with my PS3 sounds. I'm also happy with the PS2 sounds. Legacy is still my favorite. 

 

I have a K-line PRR Mikado and it is by far my favorite steam whistle.  Every time I sound it I'm blown away. Tons of volume, normally i set the volume down one click on my Cab2 before blowing it.  

 

I still have problems with controlling MTH sound volumes in a MU setup. I don't believe the PS3 has changed that at all.  

 

It is getting closer to Legacy but it just doesn't have the magic yet. 

PS-3 sound quality is much better. Not sure if it’s due to better speakers?

 

With the new additional memory space, I anticipated a jam packed arsenal of sounds.

Not the case.  

I don’t hear much more than presented by the older PS-2’s.

 

A lack of man power (cutting corners) causes a product backlog.

So a rush to meet production deadlines generally limits the amount of time spent on improving sounds.

No one has time to provide us with the true potential of each unit.

It’s all about the budget and bottom line. So, we the consumer, often get short changed.

Companies with deeper pockets would not have this problem.

 

 

I think PS3 engines sound just fine..Once I get a bunch of sound equipped engines running at the same time it doesn't really matter as it's very noisy 

 

I enjoy them all 

I'm perfectly happy with the sounds in my ever-growing roster of PS3 locomotives.

Same thing here. I only have 1-PS2 & 2-PS3 and to me the PS3's sound "tinny" while the PS2 has more "bass" and is fuller & richer as you say. 1-PS2 and 1-PS3 are SD70's and the other is an ES44AC GEVO. The PS3 SD70 is not too bad (close to the PS2), but the GEVO is the "tinniest", no bass at all - worst one IMHO. GEVO is a Premier and the SD70's are Railking Imperials. To me, the GEVO sounds like you took your stereo and turned the treble to full and the bass off. 

 

I am hoping the PS3 sound keeps improving as they said it would, but for now Lionel Legacy is still way ahead as far as my ears go.

 

And so as not to sound like bashing here, I really do like these 3 engines and am very pleased with everything else about them! I think MTH has great stuff and provides great value.

Dave,

 

Do you know which GE EVO's have the improved speakers and sound file? Mine was from the late Nov/early Dec 2012 batch, think I got it Dec 7th, 2012.  Mine is plenty loud, just sounds very tinny. If I have the older speaker version, do you know if it can be upgraded to the newer one?

 

I have on order the Railking version of the EVO from the latest catalog, hope it will be the improved version.

 

Thank you so much for the very informative post on PS3 sound. Thanks also for all your other posts that help us understand the inner workings of all this stuff, great info!

Dave - Great information.  It's not often you read an answer that takes all the possibilities into consideration.  However, you have also caused me to be a bit depressed for the day, but saved me some money.  I listen to a lot of music including live music.  I've become a bit dissatisfied with my B&W speakers of late.  I was looking forward to upgrading them, but thanks to you putting up the link to the hearing test, I think the problem is more likely my ears.  Conversely, filtering out the static is a good thing. 

 

I agree with your assessment on volume.  I find that when you run the engine sounds too loud, you get too much distortion and may be hurting the speaker.  Also, if you have more than a couple of engines on your layout, too much sound becomes annoying.  It is ridiculous to hear an engine on the other side of the layout nearly as loud as one close by, especially since you are trying to simulate distance.  

 

Schumann - Thanks for starting the thread.  It turned out much better than I would have expected!

 

 

Hi rtr12,

 

The batch from late 2012 has the larger speaker and upgraded sound file.  The sound should be excellent.  If the sound seems thin and maybe a little distorted I would suggest checking the speaker for debris.  You'd be amazed what one small piece of metal on the speaker cone will do to the sound.  I do a fair amount of hand laid track work using tiny steel spikes.  No matter how well I vacuum the track before test running the first engine always seems to find a stray spike and pick it up with the speaker magnet.  Just one spike touching the speaker cone will make a great sounding engine sound like a bad AM radio.  I would suggest dropping the fuel tank and removing the speaker so you can check both sides of the speaker.

Dave,

 

Not a fan of the EVO sound file.  The new batch still sounds thin but does get loud.  I'm gonna try swapping out the speaker to the VECO.  I like the fidelity of those much better.

 

Dave

 

Dave,

 

I will take a look at the speaker one of these days and see if I can find anything.

Been thinking of getting an engine cradle, have a good reason now. Thanks again for all your advice and explanations.

 

David Minarik,

 

In case Dave's suggestions above do not work for my EVO, please let us know if your speaker swap helps (also which one was used & where to purchase), or if you possibly find something wrong with the existing speaker. You all are a LOT more experienced than I am at this stuff and know what you are doing!

 

Thanks

 

Space allowing I replace all my MTH 4 ohm speakers with this model. Far superior to any stock MTH speaker I have seen. See frequency response chart

 

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/...-2-full-range-4-ohm/

 

Dale H

Dave, what is a VECO? 

Thanks,

Dale,

 

I've tried those speakers and I have to say that I'm not extremely impressed with them.  Also it will not fit in a diesel fuel tank.  I am constantly looking for better sounding options with speakers and enclosures.

 

Jeff,

 

VECO is a speaker manufacturer.  MTH installs them in some of their engines.  They are not as loud as the one in the EVO but have much better fidelity. They give much more low end with certain sound files.  The PS2 Dash8 and PS2 SD45 files sound great with this speaker. 

 

Keep in mind, as Dave H stated above, beauty is in the ear of the listener.

 

My .02

 

Dave

The standard 50mm 4 ohm speaker used in the upgrade kit as an example is a BF-34.  The Veco is a different looking speaker and won't fit in all applications.  It is a BF-43.  G

 The F7's have one of the newest sound sets released by MTH which was remastered for PS3. 

That's great as I have a set on order..and should be here next week!

Will MTH remaster most of the sound files to be available as downloads in the future?

I just got a 0-6-0 Up switcher Premier 2 rail and I really like the sounds. To me they sound right and not so bassy. I also have the new F-7 ABA 2 rail premier and to the sounds are fantastic. 

 

Overall I have always prefered MTH sounds over Legacy (my opinion). I feel that the chuff sounds of Legacy have too much bass and they are the same sound through out all the engines.

 

I'm sure MTH will get everything remastered and put out new sound files as they have in the past.

 

I usually don't get in these types of posts, but I really like the new sounds along with the older PS2. Again this just my opinion.

 

Ralph

Yes.  It's apparently a rather tedious process, so it will take time.  As new files are released they will be available on the website just like the PS2 files.  One of the great things about the PS3 board is that all the lower level command software can also be changed (referred to as "flash" or "DSP" code).  That enables us to fully upgrade an older PS3 engine as new improvements are made, such as adding new soft keys.  MTH has already done this in HO with the SD70ACe's and their electric locomotives.  They were able to greatly expand their DCC support with a field upgrade.

Hi Dave,

 

Sorry to bug you again, but how does one tell a 3 Volt from a 5 Volt sound file? And do the filenames specify PS2 or PS3? I think I recall seeing some files named as PS2 or PS3? And what is the rule for loading PS2 files in PS3 engines, I think I recall seeing you can do PS2 to PS3 or PS3 to PS2 as long as the voltage is the same, but don't recall which way it was, or if that is even correct?

 

This time, I'm saving all this info (entire thread) so I can refer back to it!

 

Thanks

Hi rtr12,

 

I've attached a pdf to this post that gives a break down of MTH's file nomenclature.  This breaker down applies to most 5 volt PS2 files, virtually all 3 volt PS2 files, and all PS3 files.  There were early 5 volt files from 2000-2001 that did not follow this naming convention.

 

If you look through the chart carefully you will note that there are a few items I haven't figured out.  If you or anyone else has additional info please post it and I will add it to the break down chart.

 

Put the VECO in the Evolution today.  Sounds a little better but I think the file itself is not nearly as good as the Dash8.  Customers listening to both agreed.

 

Dave

I think I recall seeing you can do PS2 to PS3 or PS3 to PS2 as long as the voltage is the same, but don't recall which way it was, or if that is even correct?

The "rules" for swapping sound files are:

• You can put a 5 volt PS2 file only in a 5 volt PS2 engine
• You can put a 3 volt PS2 file in a 3 volt PS2 engine, or in a PS3 engine
• You can put a PS3 file only in a PS3 engine
• You cannot put a PS3 file in any PS2 engine (3 volt or 5 volt).

Dave, David & Barry,

 

Thanks to you all for the great info here. Saved to my database!

 

And thanks to everyone else too!

Interesting thread;

And Thanks to everyone for the info.

I have only one PS-3 engine (The Imperial Northern) and must agree, the sounds are "OK" but not impressive. I was specially unimpressed with the chuffing. My PS-2 engines sound much clearer in this sound effect. Even the Starter Set engine !

I went looking and found a sound file posted for the Northern, tho it is a different line.

Hi Russell,

 

The chuffing was what disappointed me in the Northerns as well.  It's a new chuff recording that has what I think is a really nice clear crisp sound, but they did a poor job editing the cut-off of the sound clip.  Once you get above about 15 smph the clip sounds very odd when it loops.  Essentially, the clip is being cut off before it plays the entire chuff recording, which is very un-natural.

I have found with mth chuffs that they sound the best at 3 chuffs per revolution.  I know not prototype but at fast speeds it sounds quite good.  articulated chuffs only sound ok to me at 2 per rev as the dang sound is always changing and sometimes sounds ok and other times sounds poor.  Why does it need to go in and out of driver sync all the time when the drivers are always out of sync.  Not real at all.  Like lionel way better.

I have found all my MTH articulated engines sound better  at 4 chuffs, although at faster speeds you can`t distinguish 4 from 3 or that matter 2. which is really prototypical.  As for out of sync, I don`t have that problem, and  I run the "A" , the Big Boy, the Yellowstone and the R2. As for Lionel, I am not a fan of their chuffing sounds although I have many of their steam locomotives including the vision line Challenger.

Hi Schumann,

 

FYI, 8 chuffs per revolution is prototypical for simple (non-compound) articulated engines. Each of the four cylinders gives two exhaust strokes (2x4=8) per rev.  At that setting the engines sound pretty busy, but if you've ever heard an articulated in real life that's just the way they are.

Personally, I like the sound of the cab forward PS/2 sounds, though I understand that they aren't necessarily truly prototypical.  As far as going in and out of sync, I suspect that was done simply to compress real operation.  Eventually in real operation, the chuffs may well be in sync, and I suspect they slowly change over time in operation.  It may take a long time for the prototype to do this, but many things are time compressed for models.  Once you get to any speed, I agree that the chuffs pretty much blend together and are difficult to distinguish.  As Dave says, that's probably pretty realistic.

 

The great part is, you can change the chuff rate to make it to your liking to some degree.

We own the PS2 Railking Northern so when the PS3 versions came up I was all ready to pick a couple up for my son due to the new sounds and new drawbar. When he and I watched the Youtube MTH product video though we were very unimpressed. The chuffing was really bad. My 6 yr old son actually said "Dad, I don't like that chuffing sound. Let's just keep ours". So that's exactly what we did. I also hate the blue lights. I was really surprised because the GP's and Dash 8 that I heard were very nice. Just goes to show that PS3 doesn't automatically mean better sound.

I just got of these as well. I only have a few PS2 engines to compare it with but overall the PS3 is much better especially up top. It still lacks the deeper base in the chuff that Lionel has had for some time. Some of that might be due to the size of the speaker that would fit. I haven't opened it up yet but will eventually see if a larger speaker will work.

 

Pete

Hi all,

 

This is really a great topic, and thanks to all for the interesting input.

 

I only have 1 engine, a NYC Hudson Imperial with PS3, I just got it the other day and only running it conventionally for now until I get my DCS system.  I was impressed with the chuff sound, it's clear, deep and pretty realistic, although I've never heard what a real Hudson should sound like, it sounds very realistic and close to one of our local steam heritage club's real engines here in South Africa, and in my opinion sounds way better than a starter set bantam 4-8-4 railking engine a friend had, which I heard a while back.  A HO MTH Mikado had the same chuff and sounded more like a large dog barking than a steam engine chuff.  I also seem to think PS3 cab chatter is much clearer than PS2.

I received my new PS3 Rail King Imperial Big Boy this past week.

 

In comparison to my Lionmaster Legacy Challenger, I found that the Big Boy's sounds were definitely on a par with the Legacy Challenger.

Hi Barry, excellent, I want a bigboy as soon as I can get hold of one and can afford it.  I heard it's sound on Youtube and the chuffing is great, also like the fact that the bakcground steam and steam compressor/pump sounds differ from the most common background sounds of most other MTH engines.

 

Is their a way, in DCS, to lower the volume of those background sounds, but keeping say the water filling and coal shoveling or auto coal feeder sounds the same, as when I stand next to a real engine, the background steam sounds are actually pretty quiet, unless the safety valve goes off, then you have to literally block your ears.

 

Also would be a nice feature, as I enjoy the in and out of sync chuffing of MTH's articulated engines, if MTH could build a slipping effect, a wheel-slip effect where the engine looses traction and chuffs faster until the engineer immediately backs off on the "regulator".  As I often travel on our local Steam herritage train and the day trip route involves a few 1 in 33 grades with fairly sharp turns, the engine often looses traction.  If MTH could combine this as a feature with the press of a button you could get that slipping sound and a momentary backing off of the motion, would be pretty cool.  This for Both articulated and normal engines.

I have to say that there are very few MTH products I'm not happy with however my latest purchase of my electric standard gauge engine I have to say the sound is kind of flat .volume seems very low even though it's an electric engine and I know electric engines aren't noted for their impressive sound My older 318 electric engines sound is much better in the volume department. In the newer PS-3 engine I have all the sounds at 100% volume but they will get drowned out by other trains running at the same time.

Carl,

Is their a way, in DCS, to lower the volume of those background sounds, but keeping say the water filling and coal shoveling or auto coal feeder sounds the same,

You can independently control the volume of the following sounds;

• Engine sounds
• Horn/whistle
• Bell
• Accent sounds (cab chatter, brakes, etc.)

You can also turn certain sounds (squealing brakes, cab chatter) off altogether independently.

Good Morning

 

This is one of those topics I would like to reference in the future, How do I save it or mark it? so i can find it again.

Thank you

 

Clem