Opinions on Smoke..

In my opinion, don't use it!   I will not allow ANY USE of smoke on our 3-Rail Scale layout, because what comes out of the locomotive smoke units is NOT actually "smoke" but "oil vapor", and falls back down on the scenery and track. It also tends to mess up all the weathered steam locomotive models.

My wife has very negative allergic reactions to any train generated smoke and I feel it is a visual gimmick best left to the more toy oriented displays.  If smoke generation is known to be used, we avoid the display.

Opinion.

Just look up any of the threads from a few years ago when the pitchfork mobs demanded Lionel put the smoke features back in the Steam engines and I think you'll get a pretty good idea of the general sentiment on smoke units.

Smoke is fun but use in moderation.

Boilermaker1 posted:

Just look up any of the threads from a few years ago when the pitchfork mobs demanded Lionel put the smoke features back in the Steam engines and I think you'll get a pretty good idea of the general sentiment on smoke units.

True, however, please note that THIS discussion/subject is on the 2-Rail SCALE Forum. Many/most modelers here are not concerned with "toy train" features, such as "smoke".

If it didn't look and smell like a toy train feature, and also didn't come with all of the other issues noted above by Hot Water and then incite allergic reactions, well then I still wouldn't use it.

far more trouble than it's worth.

Hot Water posted:

Boilermaker1 posted:

Just look up any of the threads from a few years ago when the pitchfork mobs demanded Lionel put the smoke features back in the Steam engines and I think you'll get a pretty good idea of the general sentiment on smoke units.

True, however, please note that THIS discussion/subject is on the 2-Rail SCALE Forum. Many/most modelers here are not concerned with "toy train" features, such as "smoke".

Okay, yeah thats my fault for clicking in here from the right side of the screen... carry on.

No smoke, no railroad. Have to have it.

I only verify the smoke unit works when I buy a locomotive, then I turn it off.

Rusty

If an importer said it was a standard feature then I'd pay extra to NOT have it.

Reading all of the replies in the OP's thread and understanding where Hotwater is coming from, why are there so many enthusiasts who don't like smoke units in their locos?

rheil posted:

If an importer said it was a standard feature then I'd pay extra to NOT have it.

Phoebe Snow Route posted:

Reading all of the replies in the OP's thread and understanding where Hotwater is coming from, why are there so many enthusiasts who don't like smoke units in their locos?

WHAT????      Are you sure you typed that correctly?  I always think that MOST "enthusiasts" in the 3-Rail, "toy train" world, LIKE the smoke, swinging bells, smoking whistles, and smoking boiler blowdowns.

I think I may put a smoke unit in the next trolley I build so you can tell that the motor man stopped at Taco Bell for lunch...............

Hot Water posted:

 

True, however, please note that THIS discussion/subject is on the 2-Rail SCALE Forum. Many/most modelers here are not concerned with "toy train" features, such as "smoke".

Haha!  This type of answer always amuses me: 2-railers always give the "toy train" features like smoke the upturned nose treatment.   I've always assumed that 2-rail scale is supposed to be synonymous with attempting as much prototypical realism as possible.  If so, then what makes the this type of comment (Hot Water's or anyone else's) illogical and simply ridiculous, at least in my opinion, is that - last time I checked, ALL steam locomotives emitted steam.  So, by definition, any model that reproduces this feature is more prototypically accurate (in this regard) than one that does not.  

Now back to your regularly scheduled opinions ...  

Peter

Most smoke units just don't not scale right or look right.  I have seen a few G scale models where the smoke looked real but everything I have seen in O scale takes away from the realism.  And all of the other issues already mentioned put me firmly in the no-smoke group.

vonhammer87 posted:

..... Personally I feel that having smoke adds to the experience.

I agree.

If it's running .... it's smoking.

My only steam engine now is a 3-rail Legacy Y6b, but .... the fake smoke, the fake hooter whistle, the fake chugging noise .... I couldn't imagine not  using those "toy-train" features on any steamer.

(A bit of ventilation is a must for me. I have a sensitive schnoze)

vonhammer87 posted:

So I belong to the Detroit Model Railroad Club, and recently some of our members have been buying units that are equipped with smoke.

And this brought up the discussion of running smoke. Some of the older members are of course against any use of smoke what so ever. They're reasoning is of course that it leaves a residue on everything and it will cause the rails to rust (we use hand-laid steel rail). 

We are in an old movie theater and have at least 20ft ceilings in some places and so the dissipation of smoke is not a problem. The main time we would be doing this is during open houses, as a crowd pleaser. A test was done during one with one locomotive, and the crowd loved seeing the smoke (even though it was a diesel). myself and a few members were talking about just running two or three locomotives at a time for a couple laps (1 lap takes about 20 minutes when running prototypically). 

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has any opinions on smoke, and what your experiences have been. Personally I feel that having smoke adds to the experience.

Not much interest for me in smoke or sound since neither yet come close enough to "the real thing" in sight or sound for me.

With that said if I were a club I can see wanting smoke as a crowd pleaser since trains attract children of all ages and happy crowds are what we open the doors for.

2 rail, 3 rail, 10 rail...........if you want to breathe that crap you have rocks in your head!

Simon

PJB posted:

Hot Water posted:

 

True, however, please note that THIS discussion/subject is on the 2-Rail SCALE Forum. Many/most modelers here are not concerned with "toy train" features, such as "smoke".

Haha!  This type of answer always amuses me: 2-railers always give the "toy train" features like smoke the upturned nose treatment.   I've always assumed that 2-rail scale is supposed to be synonymous with attempting as much prototypical realism as possible.  If so, then what makes the this type of comment (Hot Water's or anyone else's) illogical and simply ridiculous, at least in my opinion, is that - last time I checked, ALL steam locomotives emitted steam.  So, by definition, any model that reproduces this feature is more prototypically accurate (in this regard) than one that does not.  

Now back to your regularly scheduled opinions ...  

Peter

Peter, Very true if model locomotives were really powered by steam. Mine (like most folks I know) are all powered by electricity which would dictate no smoke. Live steam locos are a different issue obviously.

Doing about 25 days of shows per year for Sunset/3rd Rail/GGD I talk to hundreds and maybe thousands of folks. The general consensus is that 3 railers want smoke and 2 railers do not. Not an opinion but a fact.

I don't usually run my stuff with the smoke on. I find it to be a novelty and treat it as such.

PJB posted:

Hot Water posted:

 

True, however, please note that THIS discussion/subject is on the 2-Rail SCALE Forum. Many/most modelers here are not concerned with "toy train" features, such as "smoke".

Haha!  This type of answer always amuses me: 2-railers always give the "toy train" features like smoke the upturned nose treatment.   I've always assumed that 2-rail scale is supposed to be synonymous with attempting as much prototypical realism as possible.  If so, then what makes the this type of comment (Hot Water's or anyone else's) illogical and simply ridiculous, at least in my opinion, is that - last time I checked, ALL steam locomotives emitted steam.  So, by definition, any model that reproduces this feature is more prototypically accurate (in this regard) than one that does not.  

Now back to your regularly scheduled opinions ...  

Peter

Thank you! It's just another way for snobby people to be snobby and look down their noses at 3 rail. IMHO.

I actually love my steam engines to smoke however I made the decision a few years ago to stop using the smoking feature. Not trying to start another war of replies here but breathing mineral oil is just not good for your lungs. 

Smoke is off , and i operate 3,rail . I have asthma and when you cant breath , scale realism with smoke kinda looses its appeal. you find out real fast how important breathing is when you cant. take care of your lungs when they stop working , so do you . techman 

jonnyspeed posted:

PJB posted:

Hot Water posted:

 

True, however, please note that THIS discussion/subject is on the 2-Rail SCALE Forum. Many/most modelers here are not concerned with "toy train" features, such as "smoke".

Haha!  This type of answer always amuses me: 2-railers always give the "toy train" features like smoke the upturned nose treatment.   I've always assumed that 2-rail scale is supposed to be synonymous with attempting as much prototypical realism as possible.  If so, then what makes the this type of comment (Hot Water's or anyone else's) illogical and simply ridiculous, at least in my opinion, is that - last time I checked, ALL steam locomotives emitted steam.  So, by definition, any model that reproduces this feature is more prototypically accurate (in this regard) than one that does not.  

Now back to your regularly scheduled opinions ...  

Peter

Thank you! It's just another way for snobby people to be snobby and look down their noses at 3 rail. IMHO.

By that comment/generalization, I must assume that you have no scenery on your layout, nor do you care about track cleanliness.  Did I forget to mention that I am also a "3-Railer", modeling in 3-Rail SCALE?

I love the smoke feature and use it all the time. of course proper ventilation is required at all times.

Bob C.

My train room

I don't care for it.   I had 2 units that had it.   I turned them off and have not had them back on.   Most of the guys in my operating group don't like the smell.   I think one guy says he is allergic to that kind of stuff.

To me, it is the same category as the talking voices from the cab on the toy train systems.    Just kind of silly.

Had smoke in 3-rail, hardly used it, didn't like it, took it out (all 18 engines are smoke-free).  My wife was alive at the time and she didn't like it either.

See too many reports about issues with smoke units to ever try them again.  Smoke units consume power, get everything around them grimy, and don't smell good to me.  They take up room inside the boiler that would be better spent on a decent speaker INSIDE THE BOILER where it belongs.

Since converting to 2-rail the only thing I miss is the steam chuff and to a much lesser extent bell and whistle.  All the other sounds are fluff that also consume power.

Kids love it, but they'd also love to see an engine on fire going down the track too

I didn't realize that two rail toys were less toys than three rail toys...

Anyhow, I normally don't run it on our public layout, unless I have a group of kids there. Kids love the smoke, the bells, the whistles- unless you don't play with your toys for any of the kids benefit...

Amazing how many professed "3-Railers" have responded to this subject on the 2-Rail SCALE forum. 

I respond to anything on the right bar... 

rheil posted:

PJB posted:

Hot Water posted:

 

True, however, please note that THIS discussion/subject is on the 2-Rail SCALE Forum. Many/most modelers here are not concerned with "toy train" features, such as "smoke".

Haha!  This type of answer always amuses me: 2-railers always give the "toy train" features like smoke the upturned nose treatment.   I've always assumed that 2-rail scale is supposed to be synonymous with attempting as much prototypical realism as possible.  If so, then what makes the this type of comment (Hot Water's or anyone else's) illogical and simply ridiculous, at least in my opinion, is that - last time I checked, ALL steam locomotives emitted steam.  So, by definition, any model that reproduces this feature is more prototypically accurate (in this regard) than one that does not.  

Now back to your regularly scheduled opinions ...  

Peter

Peter, Very true if model locomotives were really powered by steam. Mine (like most folks I know) are all powered by electricity which would dictate no smoke. Live steam locos are a different issue obviously.

Doing about 25 days of shows per year for Sunset/3rd Rail/GGD I talk to hundreds and maybe thousands of folks. The general consensus is that 3 railers want smoke and 2 railers do not. Not an opinion but a fact.

RHEIL,

Well then, you've stumbled upon the elephant - just like the steam effects that just aren't realistic enough, or the sound that just doesn't shake your house, 2-rail steam locomotives, like 3-rail versions, run on electricity, not coal.  So they are just too "toy like" and must be avoided at all costs.  

Oh, and by the way, if what you are saying is that the models run on electricity, not coal, and thus, they should not be smoking, the better question is - why on earth are you buying scale steam or even diesel locomotives?   These items clearly couldn't be more toy like or more inaccurate. Only models that are electrified through the rails will do for any self-respecting 2-railer!   

Also, it might be a fact that 2-railers don't prefer smoke effects, but it is also irrelevant to my point.  The point was that it is ridiculous to say a model that employs features of the prototype is "toy like" because it employs features of the  prototype . See my first point in this post.   

Peter

Hot Water posted:

Amazing how many professed "3-Railers" have responded to this subject on the 2-Rail SCALE forum. 

My response was not really a response to the query, it was a commentary on the illogical canned responses commonly seen in this forum.  

In terms of yet another opinion on the subject, mine is - I am a kid at heart and absolutely love smoke effects, but use them sparingly now because I would prefer my children not inhale the vapor and I do find a residue on my rails - all three of them.  Lol 

OMG, do you three Railers realize what you have done? Now you are really in "HOT WATER !" You three railers, Yeah you, bunch of "professed three railers." You think you can post here on the 2 rail scale forum? Who the heck do you think you are? Outta here, the bunch of ya ! Understand me? You've made him angry and there is gonna be steam to pay ! Back to your three rail . . . . Wait a second, someone here is a three railer. I knew it. Whooooo boy, he runs on three rails. Ooooooop la la, everybody in the water !

Eliot "Scrapiron" professed three railer Scher

Scrapiron Scher posted:

OMG, do you three Railers realize what you have done? Now you are really in "HOT WATER !" You three railers, Yeah you, bunch of "professed three railers." You think you can post here on the 2 rail scale forum? Who the heck do you think you are? Outta here, the bunch of ya ! Understand me? You've made him angry and there is gonna be steam to pay ! Back to your three rail . . . . Wait a second, someone here is a three railer. I knew it. Whooooo boy, he runs on three rails. Ooooooop la la, everybody in the water !

Eliot "Scrapiron" professed three railer Scher

Funny!!!!   Yes, I sure do operate the upstairs layout on 3-Rails, but,,,, I NEVER have the smoke feature turned on, and I don't give a crap about smoking whistles, nor swinging bells, nor boiler blowdown features.

Well well well, the 2 railers are calling the 3 railers models toys while theirs remain as prototype models!!  How interesting is that!  And as PROTOTYPE operators, they get their shorts all tangled up into a knot when anyone dares to mention the use of smoke units and sounds.  How dull a life is that?   I have yet to see a real prototype NOT emit sound nor exhaust!  And to take this silly argument a step further, why don't you CONVERT your toy models to BURN coal or oil in the fire box?  After all your PROTOTYPE operators right?

Most of you here have no clue what the original poster was trying to determine.  He is a member of  an organization that has built a fantastic layout in a former MOVIE THEATER.  Not in some low ceiling damp basement that has ZERO ventilation.   The guy was asking for an honest answer to an honest question.

The organization only has the doors open to the public a few days out of the entire year.  While they are open this is an opportune time for them to not only make a few dollars but to potentially attract some new members.    Please recall that the general public will be making up 90% or more of the foot traffic through the former theater vs. those who are already into the hobby in one form or another.

In my honest opinion, given the number of days that they will be running trains with smoke and sounds and the like, it will not detract nor will it corrupt their equipment, rails, scenery etc etc.  If anything it will add to the appeal of the coming back again to see the trains run again.   Mind you this is a very large place and I've been through there a number of times.   Sometimes while observing the trains from across the room you lose sight of where the train went.  The smoke will at times help the visitors to keep track of where it is heading and where it will reappear.

I can't say enough about the organizations effort and dedication into their railroad layout.  It must be at least 20 years in the making.  My hat is off to them!  Keep up the good work.