Original Or New Reproduction?

  I would take the original .  If there is electronics in the reproduction they might fail in a few years.

@Dwayne B I would also buy the original. I enjoy the nostalgic value of original tinplate and the thought that these toys have survived 80 some years of play. To clarify my position, I only run conventional trains. I’ve never been interested in all the crew talk, startup sequences and other features. I do have some reproductions such as older Williams 408E and 381E with original Lionel BAL motors. Be sure to post some pics if you pull the trigger and make the purchase.

Original.

One of the primary appeals of SG to me is AGE.  I appreciate old works of engineering and mechanics:  trains, tractors, trucks/cars, machinery, weapons, tools, toys.  I value survivors, pieces that have stood the test of time and avoided the natural result of a throw-away society.  My pickup is a '69 Chevy.  My tractors are '47, '49, and '51 models; the newest implement dates from the '60s.  A couple of my SG pieces are a century old.  That thought is profoundly satisfying to me.  I am not afflicted with novelitis, and so new does not impress me.  Lots of stuff is new, but to be a century old and still running better than my Legacy engine:  that impresses me.

YMMV, and I would tell anyone else to like.  But give me the original any day.

Buy the original. It will be running long after all this electronic  stuff quits.  Plus parts will be available for it.

All of my tinplate--I have a lot of it in O gauge only--is reproduction. Love the stuff, as do most all the folks, young and old, who visit. I'm just partial to bright, clean, colorful, and in pristine condition.

Original. The reproduction stuff is nice, but to me doesn’t have the character of the originals

Love these type of questions so I am going to throw in my 2 cents.  Even with inflation, it is still only worth 2 cents.

An original Blue Comet in C5 condition or a fairly new, bright and shiny reproduction Blue Comet.  Like many have stated, I would probably go for the original.  Not because of the electronics but because of the nostalgia.  This was not the run of the mill 8E set with a couple of cars.  I am not knocking the 8E set so please do not take it that way.  This was a set, when produced, only certain people could afford.  This set was, still is and will be well into the future a prized set to own.  I personally have the reproduction set and I am very pleased with it.  Do I worry about the electronics failing me in the future?  Absolutely not.  I will cross that bridge when I get there.  Meanwhile, I do load up that smoke unit and blow that whistle to my hearts content.  Some will say that is the main reason for getting the new set.  Not only is it bright and shiny but it can also do this, that and the other thing.  They are not wrong in their thinking.  But for a set like this, to be able to have the original, would be awesome.  Anytime I am looking or operating the originals, I think what it must have been like for someone to have unboxed that train oh so many years ago.  The pride and excitement they must have felt to be able to own such a train.  Then I think about me, in the here and now, a bazillion years after this toy as originally built with the pride and excitement of unboxing/unwrapping it running it for the very first time, again.

My collection is a combination of more new than old.  I am a cheap ole *******, that’s why my first wife left me, Thank God!  Needless to say, the new is more along the lines of what I am willing to pay.  Given the opportunity to get the original for a good price, I will not pass it up.  

@palallin posted:

Original.

One of the primary appeals of SG to me is AGE.  I appreciate old works of engineering and mechanics:  trains, tractors, trucks/cars, machinery, weapons, tools, toys.  I value survivors, pieces that have stood the test of time and avoided the natural result of a throw-away society.

A couple of my SG pieces are a century old.  That thought is profoundly satisfying to me.  I am not afflicted with novelitis, and so new does not impress me.  Lots of stuff is new, but to be a century old and still running better than my Legacy engine:  that impresses me.

Very well said; I couldn't agree more. 👍

Mark in Oregon

When it comes to tinplate, for all the reasons already mentioned, I always go for the original, but it has to be in C-6 or better condition. These trains and accessories are survivors from a bygone era, when toys were made here in the USA. I run just about every one of my prewar trains, and they are always the favorites of my visitors, especially when I tell them how old they are. I think the reproductions are beautiful and well-done, but I prefer the originals.

Although we're obviously in the minority, I'm with Allan Miller on this one... Shiny, now and bright!

Plus with new repros, I get remote control, nice smoke, sound and slow-running!

I am also with Allan: shiny and bright, but I prefer the traditional BAL motors. I could not afford the originals in like new condition with original boxes!

I have both and love them for the above mentioned reasons.  Recently, one of my sons, who is very tech aware, came over and I ran a new legacy engine. He said it was very nice but he liked the “old stuff” better, especially the original 251E with passenger cars.  It has been well used but not abused and is a survivor.

I'll take the reproductions, please. The colors and condition make it feel like you're the kid getting the original out for the 1st time.

I appreciate originals a great deal, and would love to have them, but, for me as an operator, "like new" is more appealing than "well used"

Reproduction.  I own and have owned a lot of STD gauge.  All of it has been repro.  It looks better, it has sounds, and smoke.  Also, it's a fraction of the cost.

If it is going on “the shelf” the original.

If it is going to heavy operation, the reproduction.

Larry

@MikeH posted:

Reproduction.  I own and have owned a lot of STD gauge.  All of it has been repro.

1. It looks better,

2. it has sounds,

3. and smoke.

4. Also, it's a fraction of the cost.

That works for you, and that's great.

Having been involved with SG only since this April of this year, my opinions are utterly worthless, but having said that:  

1. Really?

2. ...not a fan of "sounds"...

3. ...or smoke. (Most of my 3 rail O scale steamers have both these features, but I just don't use 'em.)

4. I'm finding there are deals to be had while looking for original pieces.

Like pretty much everything related to model trains (in any gauge or scale), it's all objective.

Mark in (wet today) Oregon  

I remember back when the Standard Gauge State Sets (both brown and green) and the brass "Old #7" steamer were introduced under the Lionel Classics brand. My Dad bought them all because he couldn't afford the prewar originals. Up until these purchases, everything in his prewar collection was original and in C-6 or better condition. The word "reproduction" was taboo for him, so he referred to his new Lionel Classics acquisitions as "re-issues." His reasoning for using that term was, unlike the tinplate trains reproduced by Williams, they had name plates and boxes that said "Lionel."

If it were me would go for the original.

I’m glad you’ve asked the Question, old original, or new with electronics. Although I do not run standard gauge, I would buy both, the old for a nice shelf display, the new one for colors, bright and shiny and command control…. I run Lionel Legacy system and I love it.  I like the standard gauge trains built under the Richard Kughn Era. If you buy both offerings, you can resell the one you do not like later. Let us see your set or sets when you make your final decision. Happy Railroading Everyone

You should complete your profile information so that we could know more about you and where your from, what state you live in, and your interest in the hobby of model trains. It looks like you’ve been a member since 2016, that’s great. Great to see you are an active member.

Permit me to add yet another viewpoint.

I own and run both originals and reissues/reproductions. I tend to acquire nice originals (e.g., prewar American Flyer wide gauge, O gauge, and accessories, many of which have not been reproduced) and reissues/reproductions of the high priced spread outfits (They are called "outfits", not sets) and accessories such as the Lionel State and Blue Comet outfits for the fun of running them. A reissue is the only way to obtain a sample of the Super 381, which looks great pulling "State set" cars and obtain a consistent matching finish throughout the outfit. Nice originals are usually more desirable, of course, but condition may matter to you. A grade of C5 implies that the set is "tired" and may look a bit ratty. As for age and collectability, please note that the Lionel Classics reissues are now over 30 years old which makes them about the same age as the originals were in the Postwar Era in the early 1960's when they took on the mantle of collectability.

My other criterion is that the new stuff be consistent in decoration, construction, and operation with the practices of the original Lionel Corp. and AFMCo. This includes that all motive power must be conventional/traditional. This helps in combining new and old on the same layout from appearance and operational standpoints. Electronic sounds and features and smoke are horribly at odds with the prewar aesthetic. One drives prewar tinplate trains by manipulating the handle of a transformer and are not to be operated like Modern Era Zombie trains with speed control. And, the boards shall become unavailable sooner or later while conventional trains will always be repairable.

A final thought: My father grew up as a boy with Lionel Standard gauge trains, but enjoyed seeing and running my reissues when he was still with us. To quote my Dad, "I am a child of the Depression. I like new and shiny!"

Have fun and good luck! YMMV.

Bob

Thanks everyone for your opinions. Lots of good points for both camps. Seems to me its about 50/50. I guess it great we have both options so we can see what these beautiful trains looked like brand new.

Ford or Chevy; Coke or Pepsi, etc.

My only original set is Dad's 366W...1835 engine/tender, three two-tone blue cars; Dad's first train...1934 when he was a 'kid' of 26 years...a present from Santa (Grandpa/Grandma). 

All my...and my wife's...additional tinplate is reproduction; e.g., LCT Blue Comet, LCT/MTH 500 series freight cars for the 1835 to pull, or new fantasy...her pastel "Easter" (Girl's??) O gauge train  (She was smitten seeing it at MTH's booth at York several years ago!).

Life's too short waiting for acceptable...affordable!!!...originals of some things that old to cross our paths...in our humble opinion, of course.

FWIW...

KD

I would go for the reproduction without hesitation.  Tinplate for me is all about fantasy and being shiny.  You can beat a gleaming fresh out of the box look, and you won't find that in a similar price for a museum age piece.  Also, all mine runs!  so were I would be a little hesitant to max out an old unit, a new gets to show me how much it can pull

I don't run standard gauge (yet.....), but I think if I had the choice, I would buy the original. Not for collector reasons that it is 'valuable', but I love having the old trains that hopefully a kid played with, for me that I think is what touches me (it is why C5 or whatever wouldn't bother me, it means someone used it). If I was operating, I would either buy both (as someone else said), so I could run the new one regularly and run the old one once in a while or probably buy the old one and only run it occassionally. I like the newer stuff btw, the colors, they make me feel like a kid too, but the older stuff to me is touching the past.

I prefer the new ones with can motors. They can run at any speed I set them and will stay running at that speed.

... while I have (for the most part) can motors in my scale models, I don't mind the simple, easy to operate (and service) 3 pole open frame types, both in Standard Gauge and S gauge Flyer; part of their charm, I guess. 😊

Mark in Oregon

ORIGINAL.

I think I'd prefer the reissue, for the bright color and chuff and puffing in SG.  I have an O gauge Blue Comet, the cars are probably C4 and the engine and tender are much better, C5 or C6, they are original and I can't bring myself to have them refurbished.  I also have 'custom' O gauge State cars, nice, but they are shelf queens.  That big reissue of the Blue Comet around the Christmas tree would be really be a special thing to behold, some 'toys' are like works of art, and the Blue Comet is really special.  Having said that...I too like the old stuff, tinkering with Trains, Automobiles, etc is relaxing, worthwhile and fun.

Toys aren't people, they don't gain knowledge or experience as they get older, only wear and oxidation. I don't buy pre-worn jeans and I'd prefer not to buy pre-worn trains. I mostly buy the originals if they are cheaper than the reproductions, there are no good reproductions of that model, or no reproductions of it at all. I like my trains, original or otherwise to look brand new, and it's easier to get that with a new train.

@CarGuyZM10 posted:

Original. The reproduction stuff is nice, but to me doesn’t have the character of the originals

For locomotives,reproductions with solid state circuit elements are only partial reproductions.  If your engine doesn't have an armature, commutator, field, brushes and reverse unit, it's only a partial reproduction.  With modern manufacturing methods, it should not be difficult to make pendulum reverse units.  Has that been done.

Maybe there is a small market for pendulum reverse parts.  A short time ago, I spent about an hour just making a replacement for a warped fiber strip that holds one end of the coil.  Fortunately lockons were made of the same thickness of fiber.

A nice shiny new reproduction for me.

@Strummer posted:

That works for you, and that's great.

Having been involved with SG only since this April of this year, my opinions are utterly worthless, but having said that:  

1. Really?

2. ...not a fan of "sounds"...

3. ...or smoke. (Most of my 3 rail O scale steamers have both these features, but I just don't use 'em.)

4. I'm finding there are deals to be had while looking for original pieces.

Like pretty much everything related to model trains (in any gauge or scale), it's all objective.

Mark in (wet today) Oregon  

The problem with a lot of train sounds is that they are an entertainment system that has nothing to do with what you actually would have heard around trains.  Having traveled on many trains and worked for railroads in the 50's and 60's, I can say that those toy train dining car and caboose conversation sounds were nothing  like what I actually heard.

IT is impossible to realistically reproduce locomotive sounds.  Model sounds are alway proportional to speed.  Actual diesel sounds were related to one of eight throttle notches and remained contant as enginbes accelerated.  On level track, engines would be turned off a mile before a station.  Going downgrade there should be no sound.  For steam, the problem gets worse.

I made a tribute for my father he was born in 1925 anything that I get I think what age he would of been

I got a 260E with the blue 710's and 712 original and shined up the best it could be. and mechanically gone over..

When I think my dad would of been 7 yrs old or so.. and now I have my grandchildren and see their eyes light up

I can't help think what my dad would of done at that age looking at them.

Here's the best part if I want them to look newer I have a dimmer in my train room and trust me at low light they look , sound ...GREAT....daniel

@DanssuperO posted:

I made a tribute for my father he was born in 1925 anything that I get I think what age he would of been

I got a 260E with the blue 710's and 712 original and shined up the best it could be. and mechanically gone over..

When I think my dad would of been 7 yrs old or so.. and now I have my grandchildren and see their eyes light up

I can't help think what my dad would of done at that age looking at them.

Here's the best part if I want them to look newer I have a dimmer in my train room and trust me at low light they look , sound ...GREAT....daniel

And dont forget the OZONE! Dont get THAT with a can motor!

There's a third category of standard gauge trains not being discussed here that has grabbed my fancy- Modern Era Standard Gauge (MESG). These are tinplate standard gauge trains manufactured after 1960, by a large number of smaller manufacturers, as well as a few of the larger ones like MTH and Lionel. Some are inspired by prewar trains, and others are things that were never previously offered. Jim Waterman (Waterman Locomotive Works) currently offers a wide assortment of streamliners and locomotives.

You can read all about these great trains in the recently released book "Not Your Daddy's Standard Gauge", which includes information compiled by the late Arno Barrs, and was written by the inestimable David Carse. 648 pages of great photos and detailed information! Available from CMTLLC@gmavt.net

Most of my SG is repro - I like the new look without the higher price and risk of marring an original.  However, if I can find an original that is complete and clean (no rust) but not like new, I'll run it.  I enjoy running something that's close to a century old, and repairability and availability of parts is a big plus.   

@Brian Liesberg posted:

Toys aren't people, they don't gain knowledge or experience as they get older, only wear and oxidation.

On the contrary, they most certainly do.  Every scratch is an experience some boy had fun with.  Every tinplate mile leaves just a slightly darker ring on the wheels, telling of those many miles of joy.    Every paint scuff on the pilot tells of a coupler that came undone or a toy car that didn't get off the track when the train approached. 

These old trains will tell you some fascinating stories if you will just take the time to listen to them.

Realistic sounds go with tinplate trains the way 10W-40 synthetic crankcase oil goes with Christmas dinner.