Our Diverse Hobby

A very nice essay you've put forth, Bob.  Thanks.  Although less than fifty percent of my collection is Lionel, I have the highest regard for the old stuff, and agree with your sentiments.    (I'm also 68 by the way).

Very good Bob

I on the other hand, I remember laying on the living room running my one train and getting up close lay my head down and watch it go by. Then wondering why I couldn't see through my spoke wheels on the 027 hudson(2025) , then why didn't I have a front coupler, Had a bump in the cowcatcher(pilot) that kinda looked like a coupler. Had seats in the cab though.

My favorite car was the yellow double level cattle(livestock) car, because it sat low on the wheels like a real train. Never really did like the third rail or the tall 027 track either.

When I saw my first American Flyer Wow two rails. still not enough ties. 

    I did not grow up to be a rivet counter, but I do like toy trains to look more like a scale model than not. I should be a 2 railer but I'm not, Im three rail scale with a Lionel coal loader and sawmill and Flyer barrel loader. Most people don't notice them.

Mixed up

Clem k 

ITS YOUR HOBBY TO PRACTICE THE WAY YOU WANT. NO TRAIN SNOBS HERE.

DIVERSITY WITH A COMMON THREAD, 3-RAIL HI-RAIL

All my stuff is Lionel... One operating system is enough! 

Good topic Bob!  I started out in HO when I was 12 when I bought a Tyco HO set.  For years I wanted to have things as prototypical as was reasonable.  However I always admired anyone who enjoyed the hobby differently.  If a totally fanciful train and layout was what someone wanted I always thought that was great.

Now I am happy with a couple of post war trains, a Polar Express train, and two MTH PS2 steam enginEd and a variety of freight and passenger cars.

Whatever floats your boat, or rails your train Is great.  I get a kick out of all types of trains and layouts on this forum.

I'm with you Bob.I enjoy my trains and I don't worry about things like,"how would this railroad really have been in 1939". I don't ever want to hear the word "prototypical"or the phrase "prototypicaly speaking"(B-O-R-I-N-G) again.Let me play!Nick 

The only Lionel rolling stock I have is toy type, log dump car, giraffe car, Foghorn Leghorn car, searchlight car etc, for my grandson. The made by Lionel markings do not bother me at all, in fact I couldn't even tell you if it is on any of the cars I have without looking. All my scale rolling stock is MTH, Lionel doesn't make much in my chosen road name and what little they have had I haven't been really interested in so far. I really like all the different brands we have available to us as well, can't really say I prefer one to another.

My personal taste falls somewhere in between toys and models, so it really doesn't bother me either way. I am leaning more toward more scale size stuff lately, but I know very little about the real trains so everything being prototypical does not mean a lot to me. I wouldn't know the difference one way or the other. I am actually starting to think this is kind of a blessing in disguise after reading about all the things that don't quite meet prototypical status.

For the most part I just like the trains, command control, fiddling with my layout, the wiring and electronics and running trains with my grandson. He also likes a few of these things in addition to just running the trains. He loves construction equipment, so we have some of that too, he loads things on the trains with it. It's all really just for fun for me, and I really do enjoy all aspects of it, and I also enjoy watching my grandson having fun as well.

Yes,  the diversity in the hobby is great.  I just like trains also, I do scenery and try to make it look good, It's a blend of real and play.  Nothing like seeing my General set run right next to my SantaFe F3  hahaha.  How's that for diversity.

Great post Bob. Its fun to see folks enjoy their trains in their own way. I like modeling a prototype, and find it challenging (in a good way) to capture the essence of what is real. It holds a lot of fond memories for me. I can understand why some might find it boring, because you are measuring up to something real with little room for interpretation. That can be tedious to some. But for some folks, it's enjoyable. I think that's why most of us have trains; to recall that fun time in our lives. I can also appreciate someone just running whatever they want. After all, this is supposed to be fun, right? I have a few freight cars named after local businesses. They were not prototypes, but I intend to build a train and run them around the layout just because I'd get a kick out of it. Postwar, Tinplate, prototype, it all works. Enjoy your layout big or small, the way you choose.

Andy

I've said for a long time this 3-rail hobby of ours is a very diverse market place. Given the overall small size of the market it is a wonder that there is as much product variety as there ALREADY currently is.

And I think the diversity is good. It does bug me when some think the market should be only what THEY think it should be. Very often you can read complaints like "This is made in HO so why can't it be made in scale 3-rail?"

Probably the reason is that the HO market is just so much larger than the 3-rail market. And the scale segment of the 3-rail market is even smaller, even though reading this forum (even here on the "Hi- Rail, 027, and Traditional 3-Rail O Gauge" forum, you might not always guess that).

At the recent TCA presentation, as Lionel's Matt Ashba explained how they try to present some of the newly produced scale line products, he also said  "J. Don and I do try hard to bring some product that reflects the broader body of products that Lionel has to offer." Which says to me the traditional line of Lionel products is where they still make the majority of sales and profits.

But that said, I am glad for all the diversity. The recent interest in scale products has in my mind, helped contribute to lowering of prices on used traditional types of products, especially from the MPC and early LTI era.

I don't expect everyone to have the same interests I have in trains. If I were that enamored with prototypical trains and variety, I'd go to HO, where it already exists. But, to each his own. The digital control technology, features and scale detailed 3-rail products have certainly gernerated a lot of buzz and excitement in model train circles.

Yet when Lionel goes into the mainstream media, like on the Today show, it's The Polar Express, and other traditional trains that get the attention - because that's what sells. And I would fully expect the LionChief and LionChief Plus products to get a push this year should Lionel get invited to the show again.

And even with the obvious success of these new LC and LC+ products, there are some who have missed the point of these products and want them to be some sort of "Legacy Minus" with all the features of a top notch product, at the price point of LionChief Plus.

Oh well, I still enjoy the hobby just as it is, and am thankful for everything I already have. And I would hope everyone would see the hobby the same way.

Sure, there's more that could be possibly made: That either gives you something to look forward to, or the opportunity to step up to the plate, start your own train company and make the products you feel are being ignored. As of the moment, it's still a free country.

Actually there shouldn't be any to disagree.  There is no wrong way to enjoy this great hobby!  

But as you mention diversity, there is also no wrong conversation or discussion about what anyone likes to do with the hobby.  I enjoy reading everyone's perspective and none of them are boring or prevent anyone from enjoying model trains of any gauge as they like.

It's all about fun!!

The hobby may be diverse internally, in terms of the different specialized interests of train enthusiasts, but the demographics are anything but diverse. Old white guys are about 90%. When I'm behind my table at a train show I try to be extra friendly and welcoming to those who don't fit the profile, but I don't get much opportunity. 

I like to play toy trains.  I like a complex layout with a lot of switches.  This is not prototypical at all.  The last large layout I had was on the floor of two bedrooms.  It had 50 022 switches, and 40 of them were on the main line.  They were all wired together in pairs so that when the loco threw one switch of the pair, the other switch also threw.  This made the layout into a complex "state machine."  It took 22 minutes for the train to go around the layout once due to the complex nature of the layout.  I have 125 022 switches, 15 AF O gauge switches, and about 30 O-72 switches.  I don't build scenery or buildings or any of that.  I just like to watch the train run.  I run conventional because so far, that is all I need.  And I am an electrical engineer.

I've always been interested in scale trains and prototypical operation, but in my dotage I am occasionally attracted to the dark side...

Jeff C

There is no greater pleasure than channeling your inner eight-year old.  

Well put . . . 

Servoguy, I'm a software guy, (avionics) so I understand the state machine aspects of your post, and admire your desire to operate that way. I'm a toy train guy. I love finely scenic'd layouts but I don't "do" that. I take my toy trains to our club layout and run alongside the scale locos others bring. I figure that if a visitor comes in and sees something that reminds them of halcyon bygone days then I've succeeded in my mission. 

I can relate to Servoguy and Carl.  As most of you know my 16X16 is Lionel tubular, 022 and 072 switches.  Lionel accessories, trestles, push buttons, towers, lamps, etc.  No ballast, scenery, various paints or detailed scenes.  I wanted Plasticville (I've many, many boxed kits) but ran out of room.

Pennsy by Lionel.  Nothing wrong with a JLC GG1 pulling the unpainted tuscan Midnight Express 4-wheeled Bobber, or  PRR DD35 pulling a string of operating cars.

Like others have said, there's no wrong way to enjoy this hobby.

My layout is a real MUTT for sure. Lionel, K-Line, MTH, Williams, and in my collection some real off brands - HP and Scale-craft.

I love them all the same. If they look good to me and I can afford them - they are in!

I have microwave towers and phone booths, electric, steam and diesel; trains with heavy weight passenger cars and a modern commuter train, century series and modern jets flying overhead, freight cars from the 50's and 90's, coal billboards and big new electrical towers, old bubble top police cars along side modern Pennsylvania State Police cruisers, vintage cars and modern autos, old trucks and new trucks.

Somehow (to me) it all looks good together.

I am 65 but when I am in the train room my wife says I am 12.

Just as well.

This hobby is a great opportunity to express yourself, and do what YOU want to do,

in a world created by you.  Having said that, I am one of those cited above who are

always complaining, "They made this is HO in 1948.... how come we get the same old

same old still, and don't yet have that in three rail, in 2014?" 

I have looked at HO equipment, and thought that there are lots of things made there that I would like to see in O gauge.  I think there are more offerings there because there is more interest and customer participation there.  I have no facts or figures just an opinion about this.  Because I sometimes am unable to find what I desire in traditional stuff, i have supplemented my collection(such that it is), with tinplate.  Just for additional diversity and interest.  My proposed layout will not have any great scenery or fantastic track systems.  It will run all conventionally, with three, or possibly four LionChief Plus locos, and will basically offer just circles of track with a lot of equipment running, smoking and making train sounds, such as they are.  

Another note on HO.  It's too small for me to manipulate with my arthritic hands.  Too bad, so sad.

Very timely thread, Bob. In the interview I did this week with Joe Stachler from TM Productions, he asked me where our layout fit in terms of describing it. As a qualifier he mentioned the Hi-Rail and Toy Train definitions and said from what I see you really don't fit into either category. I said during this interview that such definitions really don't mean much to me. The layout is as realistic as I want to make it and I do take liberties such as D56 accessories that are not scale.

In terms of the use of Lionel's name on their products, not problem for me, but since I operate mostly scale passenger trains, their name is not visible on these products.

Probably my layout doesn't precisely fit any of the categories, either.  There is scenery, which I like, but it's nothing advanced.  No track ballast on my 027 tubular either.  But it all pleases me - it's my best layout so far.  

I think that categorizing any layout by type is just a bad concept as any layout can speak for itself, and I think the hobby would be less interesting if they all followed "rules"...and were cookie cutter designs. You can have this but not have that. Theres enough of that in the real world....I am obsessive compulsive enough with the hobby without fretting about where I fit in......and at the end of the day, its such a trivial distinction..who really gives a hoot? 

I don't see the sense to it, either.

That's what is great about this hobby.......100 folks.....100 different perspectives on the hobby.  I like the guy with a green painted 4x8 as much as a full on 'Malcolm Furlow' super detail layout. Just collecting PW to building ones own loco......or cabooses

It's all good.....

Bob Severin,

Here is a cure for osteoarthritis:

Vitamin C  4000 mg

Copper 4 mg

Alfalfa 5000 mg

Glucosamine 1500 mg

Gelatin 1/2 ounce

I have been advising people for 35+ years on how to cure osteoarthritis, and all that took the above supplements got cured.  

If you have rheumatoid arthritis, there is a different program for that.

I am 73 years old, and have been taking the above supplements for 25 years.  I have no joint problems or back problems at all.

Servo guy,

I have been taking Vitamin C and Glucosamine Condriotin for several years, but not that high a dose.  The others I have never heard of before for osteoarthritis.  Interesting.

This is off topic but I think taking vitamins or supplements willy nilly is bad and often dangerous.

They are not regulated and are often not what the label says. None have ever been proved to do what they promise. Be careful on putting anything in your body that is not proven.

I don't and neither should anybody else Unless Doctor recommended. 

I take a multi-vitamin and a couple of supplements based on my doctor's recommendation. They track what I am taking.

Back to the original topic, I think O scale is particularly devisive within the hobby. Too many people into O don't even want anyone to know there's anything other than 3-rail, run in a loop as fast as humanly possible. A pal of mine models proto 48 and he's been told that, "we don't want your kind here" at model train shows from the 3-rail crowd.

3-rail is of course a huge part of O. Nobody could argue otherwise.

The primary reason I don't read O scale magazines is that I just don't do 3-rail at all. But there seems to be a disturbing amount of O scale folks who would rather there not be anything other than 3-rail stuff run in a circle.

As someone who's into O scale narrow gauge with more detail than Lionel stuff (but has nothing against 3-rail as it is cool in its proper context), I feel like a red-headed stepchild when O scale ever comes up...

That's rude and stupid. There's no point in being narrow-minded and exclusionary. 

Keep in mind that your body can only absorb so much of any particular vitamin daily to be of any benefit.  between 70-90 milligrams of Vitamin C is what's generally advised for people but no more than 2,000 milligrams daily or you can get unwanted side effects such as diarrhea or stomach cramps.

You also have to factor in the vitamins found naturally in certain foods you eat, on top of whatever supplements you take.

That goes both ways.  I've encountered disparaging comments like this from people in 2-rail, HO, N, etc. towards others not involved in their particular facet of the hobby.

Okay, so we're off-topic here.  Unfortunately, my osteo is so bad that any supplements just won't do.  I used to take ounce of concentrated tart cherry juice each day.  It actually helped for a time, but just masked the on-going condition, never reversed it or stopped it.  I now take 2400 mg of ibuprofin each day and am on a fairly high dose of vicoden every six hours just to be able to get out of the chair to go to the john.  I see a neurologist tomorrow to discuss what may be my next logical step, before I become a drug addict.  I used to lift weights, exercise regularly and was in relatively good shape.  Now, things have changed, and not for the better.  Hey, let's get back on-topic, okay?

Good point CW, Thank you

So what we are saying here is that we as O gaugers have a LOT more to look forward to compared to the HO folks who already have it all. Go back 20-30 years or so and look at the offerings in O gauge compared to today. And please correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm sure someone will), but I don't think the HO folks have all the operating cars and accessories that we have either, and also no middle rail. Looks like we still have the best deal and our future in O gauge looks very bright to me!

Not only do I have trouble with hands and HO size, I can no longer see well enough to get the HO stuff on the tracks, let alone work on it. Another BIG plus for O gauge (pun possibly intended)!

If you look at it carefully, the diversity of HO equipment has grown leaps and bounds over the same period, right down to several manufactures offering road-specific detailed equipment.

Plus, they're not tied to proprietary command control systems.

As far as the third rail and operating accessories and cars are concerned, that's not what HO is about.

Rusty

I am not about to knock any other scale or interpretation, many of which I am envious

of....not just HO (which I still have boxes of from my foray into, mostly kit buying, with the layout never completed...as I got into automobiles at the end of that), and

certainly not O scale in whatever form, as I use items produced for that.  But I was

reading MR and RMC a very long time and still have a file of them with items offered

that I lust for in O.  With that G scale Mack Railbus running again in the Orange Hall,

and not to be found in O three rail, I am not about to knock the larger scale, either.

I just think three rail is in a big rut and needs to climb out of it, for which there have

been attempts and fits and starts....Williams, early MTH, and then Third Rail.