P48 L.A.& S.L. Union Pacific 2-8-0 Custom Built

 

Photo Courtesy (c)copyrights apply used for reference only

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~stevekraus/up6072.html

Well, I can see that the tender was extensively reworked, but the boiler and cab look more or less intact, with lots of added detail.  Nice work.  Not sure the frame is what I would preserve ifI were doing a 100% rebuild.

 

The originals were very light gauge sheet metal.  Subsequent imports have followed that trend - the smaller the model the skinnier the brass sheet.

 

Very nice work.

Good to have a "REAL PRO" commenting here Bob. The O Gauge hobby is SO VAST in variety of scale, gauge, levels of detail, and you name it. 

 

Thanks Bob.. any idea who may have built it?

Wow nice model! This is my favorite UP steam locomotive.

 

Jeff C

See now I am wishing I went P48...

 

That is a beautiful model, the detailing within the cab itself is enough to keep me busy for hours.

Exceptional model building, especially of this type model, will always be a pleasure to behold. This is a such an exceptional pleasure.

 

Bob

Fantastic rebuild and photos Erik. Who owns it now? 

 

Butch

It has been adopted. ;-)

Rare pleasures that can be shared is even more rare. Most of these models end up in collections and never see the light of day until said buyer either passes or has a life event that forces a break up of the collection.


       

My pal Trinkle asked me last week what is so great about P48 I don't get it?

He was a three rail scale modern guy then switched to fine-scale modern post 1980's joint line.

I tried to explain that snap atlas 2 rail track is horridly over scale in 1/48. These beautiful models he owns with this huge thick rail and plastic ties, O-72 pre-fab curves and turnouts are another issue. Dang- make no mention of the 3 rail stuff!

Fine-scale P48ish can fudged pretty well in O5W fine-scale track and wheel sets but it's always too wide.

Why did we choose to model in 1/48 rather than 1/45? Does an answer or a definitive single explanation exist?

An old train club ex-friend mentions he can't see the difference and it's not enough to make a change to P48 away from O5W. I can agree with him and not agree with him. Seeing P48 in person and running it has a very persuasive value to it. It's that much closer to the real thing and if that is your goal it's something to consider.




       

Well, if you model traction and trolleys in PA, you can be exceedingly close since that track is PA broad gauge - 5' 2.5".  Most O scalers can't even see 2.5" w/o magnifiers on let alone lay track within that tolerance,

Call me ignorant if you will, but I would like to ask as I'm not that familiar.  All these Key, Overland, etc models that we have been seeing in our beloved forum, do they not run on this O5W( I don't own any)?  Can they run on P48?  I've heard of it but never payed that much attention to P48, but sounds like it is narrower and smaller track.  Let me see if I've got this straight.

 

o-27 on tube track

3 scale on 2 railish track with a center rail too wide

2 rail (O5W) - track has only two rails that are sorta scale but too wide

P48 - actual scale width and rail size

 

Just so it's known, I understand that three rail is obviously different than two rail.  

 

Why did we choose to model in 1/48 rather than 1/45? Does an answer or a definitive single explanation exist?

 

I agree with your first response - easier to use 1/4" than 17/64.  That is no longer true, since five bucks gets you a programmable calculator, and you just enter the prototype dimension and out pops what you need to scribe on the brass.

 

The very thing that makes O Scale even remotely popular is enhanced in 17/64: Size!

 

The eye has a difficult time seeing the difference between Proto-48 width and OW5 width, in isolation.  But consider the model - you really can see the difference when looking at the end of a box car.  You really can see the difference when you see the piston rod is drilled outboard of center.  You really can see the difference when your journal box covers are outboard of your car body.

 

Yes, the high end is still OW5 - witness Eric's fine Diesel photos.  We tolerate the wide rails the same way 3-railers tolerate the center rail - by pretending to ignore it.

 

Opinion - I model in 17/64, and tolerate the .172 tread width as an operating compromise.  I actually like the way it looks - still causes some problems with crankpin clearances.

 

 

 

Bob2, Thank you for the insight.

It's never too late...

Luke- I'm your father the Lionel Big Boy said to the P48 Jedi night 2-8-0.

Come to the dark side of the Force.

;-P

Maybe.... 

So is P48 the "O scale Elite?" Is there something that is even more stringent to the standards of 1/48?  Here in the land of O, we seem to have a lot of variation and none of it plays well with the other.  Going off what was said, it looks like O5W all the way for me.  

 

Does that make O5W like Han Solo?  Not Dark side, not Jedi either, but still cool and playing for the right team?

All right Martin, I'll bite. It looks like John Dunn and Rich Yoder are going to have to find a larger location for the Strasburg show if we really are going to be offering models at 1/4 prototype size. Surprised that RRJJF didn't hop on this before me.

McQ if your trying to find the elite look no further than your personal favorite. Like all things there are extremes in all facets of O-Gauge-Scaledom.

All depends on what you want to do. I want as real as it gets. A local man named Hiller makes fun of my $6500 Key PA's because it they don't have sounds like his MTH Protomaster 10,000 locos. Funny how he can't think 3 dimensionally; a $170 install and the sounds from a ESU Lok-Sounds system will pale his Proto-50,000QIS Deluxe thing.

I guess it all depends on what you want. 3 rail scale is nice stuff! I am all behind it. Easy way to get real as it gets without spending $6500 or hiring a pro-builder for $3600 to rebuild a $1200 model.

It's all elite. If it's elite to you it's elite!

P48 guys make fun of us Toy train guys running O5W and 3 rail all the time. Yeah they think they are elite. Funny -with this model I don't call it elite. It's just darn nice!!! Does it make me a P48 guy? Yes and no I do it all! Including my beloved Post-War Lionel.

And my Z scale!!

Some folks still take off their shoes to count to 11....or in some cases, 12,

I think that maybe my use of elite was misunderstood.  In definition elite is a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities.  I used it in the sense that P48 is possibly as true to scale as O can be.  Not to be confused with any quest of mine, as it sounds like more dollar signs and less availability. I'm still learning this O scale business.  Availability is already tough enough for the 2 rail crowd.   

 

 I'm perfectly happy with my O5W shelf queens and likely wouldn't trade a single one for a P48 engine. I might trade some for one of these though.....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPxg693VYN0     

 

TIL:  My trains are actually O5W and I'm OK with that.

Coincidently Key Model Imports is building the AC cab forwards in both fine scale and O5W. They are both "the elite" and the best of the best of any cab forwards ever done in 1/48 or possibly any scale.

http://www.keymodels.net/id17.html

Here is a video for the "pilot sample" shot on an "elite" layout

http://youtu.be/LoosaBMGLQM
http://youtu.be/V3Uk1xiheao

So "elite" can be defined in many ways

1-Dollar cents
2-Skill in modeling
3-Size of market
4-Level of research and devotion to a model of a prototype


Any other?

Elite is a nice code word for "I can't afford it..."

 

jeff C

       
       


Right on! ;-)

Unless of course you can build it yourself from a pile of sticks and brass stock!

No offense was meant in any way.  My purpose was not to get anyone riled up or anything of the sort.  I try to be the nice guy too and joke around a bit which often times doesn't play out in text.  But being relatively new to O scale, I guess I asked a sensitive question.  Let's put that behind us.  

 

The video of the live steam big boy was mostly joking, I had no idea how much something like that costs although I do admire it immensely.  Heck, I watch the video at least once a week.  But I was pretty sure if I rolled everything I own that's not bolted down, I probably still couldn't afford it.  I'm a middle of the road kind of guy. 

 

I dumped HO to come to O scale.  Mostly because my father made the switch, but also because once I did, I really liked the size and heft.  It's been a learning experience with all the variations and what feels like a constant game of "catch up."  Also really tricky deciphering what people are saying.  A person says "O scale" and right off I'm thinking "great, a two rail scale model."  Nope.  On the flip side, another person says "O gauge" and it's actually a two rail model.  I find myself requiring photo evidence of everything.  Show me the wheels!  Once again, learning experience, lots of questions.  

 

My shelf queens consist of a bunch of CB&Q transitional era models and some modern BNSF equipment.  Red caboose geeps, Atlas geeps and F3's, some Sunset mikado's and E7's, bunch of switchers, MTH modern power, etc.  They don't come out of their boxes much as I have nowhere to run them except the track on my windowsill and it's too stressful keeping the kids (very young) off of them anyhow, so there are few pictures.

 

Possibly this is a good excuse to take them out and get some pictures.  

 

 

 

 

 

Attitude.

ABSOLUTELY Martin!

 Eric, you are posting some of the best examples of what O scale can be.  I personally love to see what's available in the high end market. Your posts are the only way I've gotten to see them. It's very kind of you to post and take the heat!

 

Oh yeah, throw some oil and water in her and let's see her run!!!

Let me say in case I was completely misunderstood, I was not trying to put down or slight P48 in any way.  This morning I didn't even fully understand what p48 was.

Erik, you take fine pictures of very fine models and I enjoy seeing them.  Your 2-8-0 is quite nice and wonderfully detailed.

I see now that I hijacked your thread.  My apologies.

Don't take this stuff seriously.  Your posts are not antagonistic - I see nothing wrong with them.

 

I actually see nothing wrong with calling Proto-48 the elite of O Scale, even though it is not strictly speaking "O".  And I believe that folks who can afford $2000 models of Diesels are elite, in that they are probably in the upper 10% of income earners, or have a trust fund.  But "elite" may have negative connotations for some - since I am an aging Hippie, it should be that way for me.  But it is not.

I think we need to separate P48 from finescale for clarity.  While they are generally used interchangeably they do not mean the same thing.  P48 can (and usually does) encompass finescale but the reverse is not true.  Key's AC12 can be reserved with either finescale (.115) or standard (.145) treadwidths.  BUT, they are not available in P48.   Midwestern is offering their SD45s in standard OW5, finescale OW5 and finescale P48.  The finescale is much more noticeable to me than P48.  The two together make a big difference to me for diesels as the truck sideframes are ~.250 narrower than .145 OW5.  But the difference between OW5 and P48 is less than .08.

 

I can buy an OMI SD70ACe and convert it to finescale P48 much much easier than I can buy any 1/45 SD70ACe.

 

Because Key is offering their AC12 with finescale wheels it would only be a PITA to change it to P48.  Otherwise,  it would be a royal f****** PITA for modify.

 

Nope, Erik, sorry, there is no way to run that locomotive on any 3-rail track,  the treads are just going to fall between the rails.  If the treads were .145 it's iffy at all,  with the old .172 standard it would generally work.   

It's a beautiful engine. I would love to have the time to give building something like that a try. I can appreciate all that work. If your gonna do it do it right. Maybe once my girls get a little older and they don't want to hang around dad then I might have the time. Lol.

I enjoy seeing all of your posts Eric. Like Chip Foose says " it's all in the details".

Ralph

Tom Millers big boy

http://youtu.be/8eMnKqu5Ufo

I'm always dayzed and confuzed especially with all those wheel tread differences and gauge. Hehehe

Thanks Richard for helping out the legitimacy of the thread buddy!

Keeps us on track!

No hijack man- it's all good. I just like the models. Sharing the good stuff.

Stay with it Ralph!

If you have the desire I would say you could do it.





       

Beautiful model!  As a fanatic of UP steam, all I can say is 'wow'!  A lot of great craftmanship here.

 

Started building a few of my own models recently.  Love the challenge of it.

Thanks!


       

Lmao!