Painting aluminum passenger cars

Here's the scheme I want to recreate.

If they are anodized, I would paint right over that and not sand the car. The paint should stick to the anodize quite well.

You could do one for a test.

In the 70's I painted many aluminum sets before Lionel started making them in different road names. Northern Pacific, Daylight SP, and UP. They are easy to paint and hold the paint well. Don

Disassemble completely, wash parts with a plain soap and rinse well. Wash twice just in case there is any oil left.  Wipe down with denatured alcohol before painting. I paint a LOT of aluminum cars, and this works well.  Everything gotta be REAL clean. An alternative is to get and cut vinyl in a close color. I've done this with very good effect, and no paint required. If you want to paint the aluminum color, I've had good luck with RustOLeum 2X Metallic Silver paint. Not the 'hammered' stuff.  Lays down very nicely.

Jim

In the olden days, "Chart-Pak" made colored tapes for artists in various colors, including the red SP used on these cars.  Let me see if I have a photo.

On the paint, I have painted many extruded cars using Scale Coat, baked at 180 degrees for an hour, with excellent results.

I have had good luck with etching the cars in White vinegar for 24 hours, then prime and paint.

But looks like you only want to paint the stripe. I would look at using a decal and apply it over the existing finish.

Lou1985 posted:

I have a project I'd like to start in a few months. I plan on painting some aluminum passenger cars in the SP Sunset Limited scheme, basically bare aluminum with a Daylight red stripe at the top of the car. I'll probably be using modern Williams or MTH cars with channels (like the one in the attached picture). These cars are either anodized or plated. I plan on sanding the channel, applying self etching primer, and then paint. Will that stick well? I don't want the paint to come off when I decal and clear coat over the paint stripe. Any thoughts on this? 

These cars are neither anodized nor plated. Its an solid aluminum extrusion. If you use self etching primer you don't have to sand. Thats what its for.

If I had a bunch of these to do I would just get decals for the whole strip, ie red background with white letters. Paint the band to closely match the red part of the decal for better uniformity.

Pete

No photos of the taped cars - they are quite a bit more elegant than the one here with paint.  I'll include a shot of successfully painted aluminum Daylight cars - one is Speer (the most accurate in O Scale as far as corrugations go) and the other is BC Models or Kasiner - I forget which.

I should note that, for aircraft work I carefully bead blast, then chromate when I can find it, and finally paint.  For models, I just clean the aluminum a bit, and shoot the color on.  Corrosion and paint separation are only an issue when a cat gets sick and starts peeing on trains, and then all the chromate and cleaning in the world will not save the finish.

"...only an issue when a cat gets sick and starts peeing on trains..."

Well, that's a sentence I've never heard before. Love my trains, loved my various cats when I had them, at various times, but the cat didn't live with the trains. 

Norton posted:

Lou1985 posted:

I have a project I'd like to start in a few months. I plan on painting some aluminum passenger cars in the SP Sunset Limited scheme, basically bare aluminum with a Daylight red stripe at the top of the car. I'll probably be using modern Williams or MTH cars with channels (like the one in the attached picture). These cars are either anodized or plated. I plan on sanding the channel, applying self etching primer, and then paint. Will that stick well? I don't want the paint to come off when I decal and clear coat over the paint stripe. Any thoughts on this? 

These cars are neither anodized nor plated. Its an solid aluminum extrusion. If you use self etching primer you don't have to sand. Thats what its for.

If I had a bunch of these to do I would just get decals for the whole strip, ie red background with white letters. Paint the band to closely match the red part of the decal for better uniformity.

Pete

If these are the MTH or Williams cars aren't they anodized? They never seem to oxidize like the postwar Lionel cars.

BobbyD posted:

If these are the MTH or Williams cars aren't they anodized? They never seem to oxidize like the postwar Lionel cars.

All clear anodizing I have seen has a matte finish as below right vs non anodized on the left. Maybe MTH and Williams are clear powder coated??? That could be glossy, semi gloss or matte depending on the powder coat. I think its just straight out of the extruder. See Bob2's comment on cat pee above.

Pete

The MTH cars that are shiny like my Santa Fe set say "plated" on the box. That may mean they are chrome plated, which is a whole other ball of wax, as far as paint prep goes.

I have though about using red vinyl for the stripe on the cars. The issue is the lettering is a water slide decal. I'm pretty sure that won't stick to vinyl very well, hence why I want to paint the stripe on.

Postwar Lionel cars are un-coated bare aluminium. I know because I've polished and re-lettered a set for Santa Fe. I can usually find 6 like new MTH or Williams cars for less than $200. The only issue is the plating on the shiny cars. The dull anodized ones are easy to paint, but surprisingly harder to find than the plated MTH and later Williams cars. 

Lou, I have used etching primer on chrome. Degrease and spray on. No other prep needed. This on motorcycles and no paint loss after 15 years and 100,000 miles.

Pete

Norton posted:

Lou, I have used etching primer on chrome. Degrease and spray on. No other prep needed. This on motorcycles and no paint loss after 15 years and 100,000 miles.

Pete

Well that's good to know. I'll probably use some Krylon self etching primer.

Does anyone know a Krylon color that is close to SP Daylight Red?

Do the vinyl.  It will hold decals better than paint, since it is less porous.  Then when dry, take a Q-tip and swab one way only with whatever they now call Future Floor Wax.

By the way, did you know SP did the lettering and sometimes the stripe as well with black outline?  I think La Belle has artwork for silver letters with black outline - ask him for Bob Turner files, and tell him I said he can sell my decals to anybody.

bob2 posted:

Do the vinyl.  It will hold decals better than paint, since it is less porous.  Then when dry, take a Q-tip and swab one way only with whatever they now call Future Floor Wax.

By the way, did you know SP did the lettering and sometimes the stripe as well with black outline?  I think La Belle has artwork for silver letters with black outline - ask him for Bob Turner files, and tell him I said he can sell my decals to anybody.

I was unaware water slide decals would adhere to vinyl. In that case, since the channel in the car is 1/4 inch wide, would red 1/4 inch pinstripe tape like this work: 

https://www.amazon.com/Trimbri...e-Tape/dp/B00029XBBE

I am going to use a Microscale SP decal set and some thin black line decals I have.

D500 posted:

"...only an issue when a cat gets sick and starts peeing on trains..."

Well, that's a sentence I've never heard before. Love my trains, loved my various cats when I had them, at various times, but the cat didn't live with the trains. 

Would not be a problem for me after the first occurance!

Jim

Lou1985 posted:

The MTH cars that are shiny like my Santa Fe set say "plated" on the box. That may mean they are chrome plated, which is a whole other ball of wax, as far as paint prep goes.

I have though about using red vinyl for the stripe on the cars. The issue is the lettering is a water slide decal. I'm pretty sure that won't stick to vinyl very well, hence why I want to paint the stripe on.

Postwar Lionel cars are un-coated bare aluminium. I know because I've polished and re-lettered a set for Santa Fe. I can usually find 6 like new MTH or Williams cars for less than $200. The only issue is the plating on the shiny cars. The dull anodized ones are easy to paint, but surprisingly harder to find than the plated MTH and later Williams cars. 

I have used vinyl stripes and then vinyl cut lettering on top of the stripes with good effect. one caution -- vinyl on vinyl STICKS LIKE CRAZY so you have to have the lettering lined up well when it first touches the vinyl tape stripe.

Jim Waterman posted:

Lou1985 posted:

The MTH cars that are shiny like my Santa Fe set say "plated" on the box. That may mean they are chrome plated, which is a whole other ball of wax, as far as paint prep goes.

I have though about using red vinyl for the stripe on the cars. The issue is the lettering is a water slide decal. I'm pretty sure that won't stick to vinyl very well, hence why I want to paint the stripe on.

Postwar Lionel cars are un-coated bare aluminium. I know because I've polished and re-lettered a set for Santa Fe. I can usually find 6 like new MTH or Williams cars for less than $200. The only issue is the plating on the shiny cars. The dull anodized ones are easy to paint, but surprisingly harder to find than the plated MTH and later Williams cars. 

I have used vinyl stripes and then vinyl cut lettering on top of the stripes with good effect. one caution -- vinyl on vinyl STICKS LIKE CRAZY so you have to have the lettering lined up well when it first touches the vinyl tape stripe.

 

I've done vinyl on vinyl multiple times before and it's worked great. What I'd like to know is if Microscale water slide decals will stick to vinyl. If they do then vinyl is the way to go. If not I'll have to go the paint route.

Here are the "Chart Pak" cars.  I ave not seen Chart Pak tape since about 1963, but this roll survived a half century.  These are Kasiner cars - not correct for SP, but all I had at the time.

I included a bunch of other cars - the Empire Builder dome car is a Mac Shops extrusion, painted with Scale Coat and striped with those neat "Pilot" pens.  Decals are La Belle.  The Armour Yellow and Harbormist Grey car is likewise Scale Coat.  The L&N cars are beat up Walthers, salvaged with Scale Coat and La Belle decals.

There is no reason decals would not adhere to vinyl.  They adhere to glass, and that may be even less porous than vinyl.

You cannot see much of it, but the GN baggage car is a wood block.  I do wood blocks when I am lazy and in a hurry - usually they are temporary tenders.

Norton posted:

BobbyD posted:

If these are the MTH or Williams cars aren't they anodized? They never seem to oxidize like the postwar Lionel cars.

All clear anodizing I have seen has a matte finish as below right vs non anodized on the left. Maybe MTH and Williams are clear powder coated??? That could be glossy, semi gloss or matte depending on the powder coat. I think its just straight out of the extruder. See Bob2's comment on cat pee above.

Pete

Bright Anodized, very common. Look inside a trailer at the diamond plate flooring.

Lou1985 posted:

The MTH cars that are shiny like my Santa Fe set say "plated" on the box. That may mean they are chrome plated, which is a whole other ball of wax, as far as paint prep goes.. 

Interesting. Has anyone ever seen the finish on these cars come off? If it can't flake off I'd guess they are actually anodized, not plated.

bob2 posted:

Here are the "Chart Pak" cars.  I ave not seen Chart Pak tape since about 1963, but this roll survived a half century.  These are Kasiner cars - not correct for SP, but all I had at the time.

I included a bunch of other cars - the Empire Builder dome car is a Mac Shops extrusion, painted with Scale Coat and striped with those neat "Pilot" pens.  Decals are La Belle.  The Armour Yellow and Harbormist Grey car is likewise Scale Coat.  The L&N cars are beat up Walthers, salvaged with Scale Coat and La Belle decals.

There is no reason decals would not adhere to vinyl.  They adhere to glass, and that may be even less porous than vinyl.

I have some leftover Microscale decals from another project and some vinyl. I'm going to do a test and see if they actually stick to the vinyl. That way I know what I can, and can not, do with the cars.

You have quite the collection. Do your SP cars have any lettering or do they just have the red stripe?