P&LE Green?

@Cadillac Mike posted:

Hello All,

I am looking to paint one of my undecorated Red Caboose GP kits in the 1960 P&LE Green scheme with white safety stripes on the pilot.  So is the green more like Reading Green or Pullman Green?  While I am not a nitpicker that needs to have the EXACT color, I would like to get something close. Looking at photos, sometimes the color looks almost black while other times it is very green.

Have you tried contacting the New York Central Technical and Historical Society?

Haha, I am a member!   I love the society but most of the guys I have spoken to cannot agree on the proper color mix. I am not a rivet counter so I am looking for close like horseshoes and hand grenades.  I have narrowed it down to Pullman or Reading green but was looking for someone to verify which one is closer.

Were they painting cabooses the same as NYC?

Cadillac Mike

Recommend you get on the Society's website (nycshs.org).  Color info is in two locations:  In a top, pull-down tab under "About NYC" there is an article on NYC colors, with qualifications but also including the paint formulas used by Lowes, etc.  I am aware that at least one O- gauge/scale importer used this color information for a postwar 20th Century Limited (with no complaints of which I am aware re the color).

Under another pull-down tab "Modeling Technical Resources", go to "Modeling Technical Data" for additional and more contemporary paint information.

As info, the best color image of P&LE green, and the image used by MTH when they issued the P&LE A-2A Berkshire, was a color image of #9401 taken by the company photographer of the clean engine when it pulled a Directors' special when the engine was new.  NOTE:  This MAY or MAY NOT be the color used by P&LE for painting cabooses.

Finally, from my personal experience with a locomotive builder, I do know that exact color was not closely controlled by the railroad industry, at least until the late diesel age with the advent of sophisticated color check equipment, and color varied from shop to shop on many or most railroads.  Perhaps the best example of this is to view a color image of a freight train and the wide color disparity of "box car reds" in any freight, even allowing for weather related degradation of individual cars.

Definitely don’t go by the A2 Berk color of the P&LE ....that locomotive was painted with paint intended for another order that had fallen through....that wasn’t a specific request by the P&LE ..... I read that somewheres, and I’ll provide a book title, or a link for the article...

Pat

I have the Morning Sun Books on P&LE.  Volume 2 has some nice photos but that is where I am having trouble with what green to buy.  As you read through the thread, you see my dilemma. I belong to the NYC historical society and a couple of the "old timers" that knew the P&LE before its independence cannot agree on the color.  Some say tomato, some say tomotto, I just want to eat the silly thing.

@harmonyards posted:

Definitely don’t go by the A2 Berk color of the P&LE ....that locomotive was painted with paint intended for another order that had fallen through....that wasn’t a specific request by the P&LE ..... I read that somewheres, and I’ll provide a book title, or a link for the article...

Pat

I thought the P&LE really did not want the Berks under the paint......

@Dominic Mazoch posted:

I thought the P&LE really did not want the Berks under the paint......

How does that comment help answer the original poster's question?????

Mike:

I’ll offer a highly unscientific opinion.

I looked at the photos in the Morning Sun P&LE volume 2 under a bright light and did a side by side comparison with photos of Reading GP’s in their green.  I think the two are substantially similar and that Pullman green would be “too green”.  For what it’s worth. 🤷

Curt

Mike, shoot me a message, I have some color pics of 60’s NYC cabooses...or cabeese....I spy some P&LE equipment....I have this book....hope it’s ok just to have a pic of the cover on here??.....is that ok to do Alan Arnold??....

Pat

As I recall, it was more of an 'olive drab' than a green when fresh and clean.  Unfortunately my photos of P&LE GP's of that period, with the exception of the passenger unit below, taken in mid-'67, are all in b&w.  The rest are the only photos I could quickly find that are in color of 'old scheme' diesels taken in the '60's, but I shall keep looking.

Edited to add:  Well, I took all these photos, so the copyright rests with me.

@Steinzeit, you got to be careful uploading copyrighted pics,.....the forum gets in big legal trouble if we post up copyright pics on here.....check your source buddy, remove any copyright stuff.....

Pat

I modeled the same thing in HO as I wanted a 2 car local commuter. I did this quite awhile ago so I can't recall exactly what paints I used. Probably started out with a Pullman Green. May have added a few drops of yellow, just not sure. Just an idea.