Passenger Cars For N&W J

@Trainlover9943 posted:

Eventually, I'm going to get an N&W J (or two) for my collection. I'm looking at the 20-3133-1  #608 and the 20-3024-1 #611. The 608 has announcements for the Pocahontas and 611 has announcements for the powhatan arrow. What cars would be the best to go with these engines? I'm not modeling any specific time period and would maybe put the 611 with the 765 from time to time. Not sure if I should do a N&W heavyweight set from MTH or Lionel, a streamlined set from MTH or an NS streamlined set from MTH. Ideas? 

How big is your layout, i.e. do you have large, 027 or larger curves? If you are in the market for full scale passenger cars, I seem to recall that Golden Gate Depot produced the Powhatan Arrow train set in both 3-Rail and 2-Rail scale. I remember modeling a pretty correct Pocahontas steam era passenger train, made up with Weaver 20" scale cars, and lots of headend baggage & express cars, behind an MTH J Class.

As I recall Matt the Pocahontas was an older train that used a mixture of older and newer equipment, and that had head end cars .and sleepers  The Powhattan Arrow was an all seat coach train that had a diner and a tavern/observation, but did not have head end cars or sleepers, and that used newer lightweight cars.  I believe cars assigned to the Powhattan Arrow for a time at least had the train name on the cars.

@Hot Water posted:

How big is your layout, i.e. do you have large, 027 or larger curves? If you are in the market for full scale passenger cars, I seem to recall that Golden Gate Depot produced the Powhatan Arrow train set in both 3-Rail and 2-Rail scale. I remember modeling a pretty correct Pocahontas steam era passenger train, made up with Weaver 20" scale cars, and lots of headend baggage & express cars, behind an MTH J Class.

I'd prefer the 18" cars. I don't have the space for 21" unfortunately. I have 044.5in curves. 

@Bill N posted:

As I recall Matt the Pocahontas was an older train that used a mixture of older and newer equipment, and that had head end cars .and sleepers  The Powhattan Arrow was an all seat coach train that had a diner and a tavern/observation, but did not have head end cars or sleepers, and that used newer lightweight cars.  I believe cars assigned to the Powhattan Arrow for a time at least had the train name on the cars.

Ah cool. I probably should have looked up prototype photos before I made this thread but both sound interesting to model. 

Many pictures on the N&W historical society web site.

@hokie71 posted:

Many pictures on the N&W historical society web site.

I'll check it out. 

FWIW, the streamlined cars put out by Lionel and MTH are basically generic passenger cars painted in the N&W scheme.  I own seven of the Lionel 18" aluminum cars and they're certainly nice looking as a train but not necessarily accurate to the prototype.  Mine really aren't accurate as I initially started with the four car Pocahontas set out of the  boxed set that included the first Legacy 611, but no add on cars were made for it since I believe the aluminum car production ended at that point.  I bought the three add on cars from the older Powhatan Arrow set which are identical cars aside from the train name printed on the side and a slightly different shade of tuscan red.  Again, although I think they look nice in a train (especially from a distant view), they're definitely not accurate from the mixed train name standpoint along with many other details as well.

I've seen the MTH cars and feel similarly about them.  They're definitely easier on the budget, however it's up to you on how accurate you want to be.  

@SantaFe158 posted:

FWIW, the streamlined cars put out by Lionel and MTH are basically generic passenger cars painted in the N&W scheme.  I own seven of the Lionel 18" aluminum cars and they're certainly nice looking as a train but not necessarily accurate to the prototype.  Mine really aren't accurate as I initially started with the four car Pocahontas set out of the  boxed set that included the first Legacy 611, but no add on cars were made for it since I believe the aluminum car production ended at that point.  I bought the three add on cars from the older Powhatan Arrow set which are identical cars aside from the train name printed on the side and a slightly different shade of tuscan red.  Again, although I think they look nice in a train (especially from a distant view), they're definitely not accurate from the mixed train name standpoint along with many other details as well.

I've seen the MTH cars and feel similarly about them.  They're definitely easier on the budget, however it's up to you on how accurate you want to be.  

I have a set of MTH cars and like them. I think they would do just fine for my needs. I have a streamlined set of aluminum cars in the CA Zephyr scheme which are junk. I've never owned the heavyweights from Lionel as I'm unsure if they can do my curves. 

Lionel appears to not give a firm answer either as far as the heavyweight cars go.  The Polar Express scale heavyweights are listed as O-42 minimum with an O-54 recommend.  Others of the same cars in different paint schemes are listed as O-54 only.  I have a set of the PRR commuter cars from 2005 with the four wheel trucks, but I can't say I've ever tried to run them on anything smaller than O-60 and Lionel doesn't list a minimum curve for them on their website.  I think the limit with turn radius on those is when the coupler shank hits the steps on the ends of the cars, but I'm not 100% certain.

@SantaFe158 posted:

Lionel appears to not give a firm answer either as far as the heavyweight cars go.  The Polar Express scale heavyweights are listed as O-42 minimum with an O-54 recommend.  Others of the same cars in different paint schemes are listed as O-54 only.  I have a set of the PRR commuter cars from 2005 with the four wheel trucks, but I can't say I've ever tried to run them on anything smaller than O-60 and Lionel doesn't list a minimum curve for them on their website.  I think the limit with turn radius on those is when the coupler shank hits the steps on the ends of the cars, but I'm not 100% certain.

So odd and makes no sense. 

@Bill N posted:

As I recall Matt the Pocahontas was an older train that used a mixture of older and newer equipment, and that had head end cars .and sleepers  The Powhattan Arrow was an all seat coach train that had a diner and a tavern/observation, but did not have head end cars or sleepers, and that used newer lightweight cars.  I believe cars assigned to the Powhattan Arrow for a time at least had the train name on the cars.

For the arrow, it looks like the Lionel Aluminum cars (18") will do the trick (At least for what I can run right now). Just have to track them down for a decent dollar. Now just have to figure out the Pocahontas.  

@Trainlover9943 posted:

For the arrow, it looks like the Lionel Aluminum cars (18") will do the trick (At least for what I can run right now). Just have to track them down for a decent dollar. Now just have to figure out the Pocahontas.  

If you're patient, the Lionel Powhatan Arrow cars show up on eBay from time to time (recently saw a set and add ons pop up actually).  I kept an eye out for the add on cars and eventually found them and also the full set, however so far I've only bought the add on cars.  Perhaps one day I'll buy the proper four car set to match them, but in the mean time they look OK enough with the newer Pocahontas cars for the few times a year they get run on the club layout.

@SantaFe158 posted:

If you're patient, the Lionel Powhatan Arrow cars show up on eBay from time to time (recently saw a set and add ons pop up actually).  I kept an eye out for the add on cars and eventually found them and also the full set, however so far I've only bought the add on cars.  Perhaps one day I'll buy the proper four car set to match them, but in the mean time they look OK enough with the newer Pocahontas cars for the few times a year they get run on the club layout.

Well, we don't have to wait long. If you want to win either the 4pk or 2pk there both on auction right now. Wish I could afford them.  

I just thought I'd share a couple pictures of my 15" Lionel Powhatan Arrow cars.  This is the older Lionel set which I like better than the newer ones mainly because of the ribbed sides and roof,  also the name plate on the side of the cars  opposed to being just painted on in  the newer set. 

I also have the newer smooth sided set (7 cars) that I'll be sell later this year, If anyone is interested contact me off line. 

Doug

@boomer0622 posted:

I just thought I'd share a couple pictures of my 15" Lionel Powhatan Arrow cars.  This is the older Lionel set which I like better than the newer ones mainly because of the ribbed sides and roof,  also the name plate on the side of the cars  opposed to being just painted on in  the newer set. 

I also have the newer smooth sided set (7 cars) that I'll be sell later this year, If anyone is interested contact me off line. 

 

Doug

Nice set! However, the N&W never had ribbed sides. 

This is a MTH 5 car set I purchased a few months ago a really nice set 70' Madison's MTH 20-4024

My photos don't do the set justice 

@rpmcobra posted:

This is a MTH 5 car set I purchased a few months ago a really nice set 70' Madison's MTH 20-4024

My photos don't do the set justice 

Nice cars! May have to consider these for the Pocahontas.