Passenger trains appropriate for the Santa Fe 5011 Texas

Considering the main line speeds of passenger trains on the Santa Fe, I seriously doubt that any of their big 2-10-4s actually handled "scheduled" passenger trains, as these locomotives would NOT have been capable of sustained speeds of 100+ MPH. Troop and mail trains on occasion, probably.

Hello guys and gals.....

How cool !!, I have Sunset S.F.5011 and MTH heavyweight Madison cars. Can you post the picture of that photo jaygee ?

The woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678,2003

Tiffany

The 5011 class may have occasionally subbed for an ailing Northern or a failing early diesel, but they were primarily freight locomotives.

Had it not been for WW II, the 5011 class wouldn't have existed, they would have been FT's.

Rusty

On page 272 in the book Santa Fe Locomotive Development there is a photo of 5011 class 2-10-4 number 5023 pulling the second section of eastbound Train 24, the Grand Canyon.  The photo was taken on January 12, 1947 by Otto Perry.

Stuart

Here 'tis:

Source: http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/

On the Grand Canyon east of Belen, NM, January 12, 1947.

That's an awful big locomotive for such a small train...  I doubt the 8 cars are even noticed by the 5023.

Rusty

he 5011 class may have occasionally subbed for an ailing Northern or a failing early diesel, but they were primarily freight locomotives.

i have to agree with Rusty.  They were not primary power for passenger trains, but were used for that purpose on occasion.    

Otto Perry's video, "Otto Perry's Santa Fe", shows at least one passenger train pulled by a 5011 Class, a "Shriner's Special", and I think a troop trains.

I don't remember if there is a clip in this preview but you might look.

There's NO doubt that a 5011 would be able to make 80 MPH and maintain it over a fair distance.  They were not regular passenger power, sure, but they were used in that capacity in much the same way C&O used the K4 class Kanawha for varnish. And thanks for sharing that awesome video !   Looks like I need some fishbellies for sure !

I would disagree. With 30" cylinders and 34" stroke, and the weight of main and side rods necessary for five coupled axles, operation of these locomotives at 80 mph would not have been wise. Does someone have an ATSF Employee's Timetable from the steam age for the Division where these engines ran? That would show the max operating speed, and I would bet that it isn't over 60 mph.

Until somebody can post those speeds, we can only speculate...but then remember Madame Queen was a 69" driver machine and could do 60 MPH, IIRC.  Why then mess with 74" drivers on the 5001 / 5011 classes?  You can only milk the lower machinery speeds thing so far. I also don't know what the typical passenger speeds would have been for the trains they did haul, ie. Grand Canyon, etc.  It might be that something below 80 MPH would have been entirely adequate. Remember too, that over across the street, Espee had a 2-8-8-4 with 63.5" drivers...rated at 75 MPH ! 5011 is a product improved 5001, so I don't doubt that their top end was a bit better, even on the same size drivers.  One not so quick way to find out...let's fix 5021, fire her up, and find out !   Now once we can determine the passenger trains they hauled, then we can find some timetable info if needs be, and calculate some average speeds. I can also get my consist info, but up to this point it looks like a high percentage of heavyweight goodies.  I never expected to find a 5011 on the Chief...or the El Cap !

The 5011 Class 2-10-4's were assigned to the southern transcontinental route, normally operating between Wellington and Winslow.  Between Wellington and Belen, the district speed for Passenger after 1947 was 79 MPH.  Therefore, these engines, running 70 MPH, would not have been a great detriment when used on sections of regular trains or on troop trains or passenger specials (usually operated as sections of regular trains and not as extras).  Additionally, most of this territory is a series of long, moderate, grades -- some being over 100 miles in length.  The real speed consideration would be how the train performed on the long ascending grades, and, with a heavy passenger train, the 5011 Class would likely have kept right up with the big 4-8-4's there.

However, they were valuable freight engines and were not often used on passenger trains, since there were a good many passenger steam engines normally available.

Hello, Tiffany!   Get out your Sunset 5011 and all those heavyweight cars too, but don't be afraid to throw in a few stainless lightweights along with....this is proving to be MOST interesting stuff !  Glad I loaded up on the Walthers SF heavyweight sale a while back !

You are thinking of Santa Fe engine 5000, which is in its own Class and looks different from the 5001 and 5011 Class 2-10-4's.  Among other numerous differences, it has an Elesco bundle feed water heater mounted above the smokebox.

The event you are describing happened right here in windy old Amarillo.  Messer Construction, of Hereford, TX, who does quite a bit of contract work for BNSF, donated the equipment and labor and moved the engine about two city blocks to its current location.  It has since been cosmetically restored by volunteers and there is a group collecting money for its eventual restoration for service, although that financial goal is not yet close to being met.  It is being well cared for, and some work has been done on it, toward eventual operation.  Most likely, (if the group succeeds) it would be operated over the former Fort Worth & Denver and also the Santa Fe line north to La Junta, CO.  Both lines are medium density and would not have nearly as many trains as the Transcon, and speed limits are more in line with the 500's limitations.

Thank you, Smile

The woman who loves the S.F 5011,2678,2003

Tiffany