Piggy Back Trains?

CP runs piggy back trains on the Montreal=Toronto main line.  Containers could be an alternative.

I see plenty of TOFC/Container trains tearing up the ballast in the Chicago suburbs on the BNSF.

 

Rusty

I still see piggyback trains too although, not as many pure piggyback trains as maybe five to ten years ago. 

It seems like more of the large national truckers are converting their fleets from traditional trailers to domestic containers which may be handled in doublestack trains.

Curt

Here in western PA I see a lot of Norfolk Southern intermodal trains. Most of the shipping containers are J.B. Hunt.

 

I don't see too many piggybacks.

 

NS used to run road railers (Triple Crown) but I don't see too many of them anymore. Maybe they still do. They operate most of the track in this area so it's possible they still run them in other locales like along the Ohio River northwest of Pittsburgh.

I have no idea where you live, but here in the western suburbs of Chicago, the BNSF operates LOTS of TOFC trains on both the former CB&Q main line, as well as the former Santa Fe main line.

Piggy Back trains fell out of favor because a double stack train can haul twice as much freight on the same train and because the opening between the underside of the trailer and the flat car deck can result in a lot of air resistance, which increases fuel consumption. 

I agree, plus most of the stuff shipped  from the west coast arrives from china already   in containers . .    As you know try and buy something not made in china. not easy.

Today I saw an Amtrak and a piggy back and an autorack train. 

 

Say that ten times real fast.  

The NS 218/217 runs UPS piggybacks everyday to and from Chicago .

 

BNSF is trying to convert shippers to double stacks by basically.offering a 2 for 1 sales pitch. They can offer a better rate with 2 containers per car than 1 to 1 piggybacks. JB Hunt is getting more and more "Intermodal" containers and less trailers. Even Fed Ex is now loading many new double stack containers instead of just trailers. As time goes on, you will see more and more doublestacks and less pigs.

I live in upstate SC on the former Southern main.  NS runs lots of double stacks...with maybe a few TOFC mixed in.

I have noticed this in the last decade too.  Most of the intermodal trains in my area are mostly double stack containers now.  

Here is an early 90's CSX intermodal train vs. a current one.

I like to call them Rubber tire trains....i think i see two each way daily on the way to buffalo..the rest all containers...BORING !...when i started in 1972 40 ft boxcars were still plentifull as well as 50 ft..i thought they would be around forever...progress ? conrail john

The reason I asked is honestly...I never see many intermodal containers being pulled down the highway.  Which perhaps is the point of the stack trains success.  But I also think long haul trucks would like to stuck their trailer on a TOFC for the journey across country.  Perhaps there is some inherent inefficiency with that.  I will see them stick a trailer in a double stack baretable...I guess its made to fit....but it always looks awkward to me.

Mike:

A lot of the domestic containers being used by truckload carriers such as Hunt, Schneider, England and so on, might not look like containers at first glance.  If you actually read the markings on them however, it is easy to discern the difference between a trailer and a domestic "can".

And there is always a tried and true means of identifying a domestic container that frequently travels by rail; look for the two vertical stains on the rear of the container caused by dirty water spray kicking up off the heads of the rail.

Curt

There are many containers being moved on the CN/GTW line through Michigan.

 

Many 53' intermodal containers are being hauled on I-94 through Michigan.

 

 

Andrew

I discussed this with a railfan friend today.  We used to see a lot of Canadian Pacific Expressway trains on the single track mainline, but now its only container trains, oil trains and a few general freight trains. I live near the line and have a very good view at my Mother's long term care room.  CP calls its piggyback service Expressway and it is now down to one train a day between Montreal and Milton, ON (west Toronto outer suburb). How long it lasts is probably dependent on the continued business of a handful of customers. Both trains run at night which explains why we haven't seen them recently.

You would think traditional piggyback would be just as popular as container traffic.  As mentioned earlier I do not see that many intermodal container behind trucks..I do see them often but mainly I see your traditional cab and trailer truck.

 

I would think that TOFC would be ideal for say that long distance ground trek for UPS and FEDEX inter-terminal moves.  Or JB Hunt as always.  What about Wal-Mart.  Truck is best for distro...to local stores...but what about from origin/port/remote warehouses....to the distro center...put those trailers on a train.  The track goes right by the local Wal Mart Distro center.  TOFC can run on lines with height clearance issues.  

I am in the Central PA area and the NS and CSX move a lot of containers, like Juniata Guy states it is tough to tell the difference between a container on the highway and a regular trailer. Beside so much is shipped in containers very little left to ship via TTOF. The NS Roadrailer was a short lived idea but still see it on occasion here in Central PA. Both NS and CSX have built big container yards to off load here in Franklin County due to I-81.

As a driver on their DEDICATED Rite Aid Pharmacy account in Aberdeen, Md., I know that J. B. Hunt has over 3 billion dollars in Revenue yearly, and 61 % of its revenues, and over 77% of its profits stem from its INTERMODAL DIVISION started in 1989!!!  Major rail carriers are BNSF in the West, and Norfolk Southern in the East. Major trucking competitors are YRC, Swift, and Schneider.

I am in the Central PA area and the NS and CSX move a lot of containers, like Juniata Guy states it is tough to tell the difference between a container on the highway and a regular trailer. 

 

NOt really. Just look for the corner castings as well as the multiple hinged rear doors!

 

 

 

 

Domestic containers do not look like the international (ISO) containers. Since they are not stacked 10 or 12 high on ships, only two high on railcars, they do not have to be as strong and do not have the corrugated sides.  Most are built to the 102" width that was adopted in the US several years ago, but use the 8 foot wide by 40 foot long pedestal locations, so the pockets are under the box, not at the side, and are not as noticeable.  Since the sides are flat and the boxes are used only in North America, they are usually painted with domestic trucking logos. As it recall, they do not use the standard container/ trailer numbering scheme. The standard gauge dirt stripes are not a good indication of a container as trailers can end up marked this way too, depending on what kind of cars they have been riding on.  

 

The advantage of domestic containers is they can be stacked two high doubling the number of boxes on a train, and they are not open underneath like a trailer, so there is less wind drag.  Also, they are lighter than an international box so they will carry more lading.  Another advantage is being 108" wide allows two four foot square pallets to loaded side by side, something that is not possible in the international 96" wide container.  There are a lot of domestic containers out there and more all the time as fuel cost drive domestic freight to trains.

Most containers I have seen have a "spine" at the end of a 40', and 4' or 6.5' from the ends of a 48' or 53' container.  These usually have some info or arrows about "lift" at the top of those spines.

Thanks a lot for this information in this topic. I favor intermodal trains & it was very interesting to learn more about the domestic 53’ containers & piggyback trailer-trains.

Naveen Rajan

David,

Could you please let us know why you believe the domestic 53’ containers shouldn’t be stacked more than 2 containers high or even as high as the ISO containers on ocean-going ships (6 – 8 max on each deck)? I was reading the latest issue of the Progressive Railroading magazine last night & saw an image of the CSX Louisville, KY yard serving UPS & saw multiple CSX branded 53’ containers stacked 4 containers high. Here are some more images I found on Google showing more than two 53’containers stacked on top of each other. But I am not sure if they are empty of full from these pictures.

 

http://www.californiatrains.co...ts_wlmgtn_082706.jpg

 

http://www.californiatrains.co...ba_wlmgtn_110506.jpg

 

The number of stacked containers (ISO or domestic) could be limited by the height of the straddle /sprinter carriers that move the containers around or the stacker cranes that stack them in the yard.

 

Or the reason we don’t see many of these 53’ containers stacked higher could be because of the highly efficient planning & logistics behind their transportation. Maybe they are moving most of the time, being loaded or unloaded to maximize profits to the shipper, railroad, trucking company & end-user. The computerized systems & RFID tags might make it easier to trace the location of each container, eliminating wasted time or resources.

 

This posting renewed my interest in 53’ domestic intermodal containers & after going to the websites of Schneider & Pacer (Stacktrain), their containers seem to have corrugated sides, not flat sides. I have seen Union Pacific & BNSF intermodal trains here in central IL & the 53’ containers on those trains (Hub Group & JB Hunt) also seem to have corrugated sides.

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

In the streamlined passenger train era you had two types of sides on pass cars, like containers today!

I guess you could have more than two stacked.  But I would be afraid of the thing tipping over.  And tunnels and bridges would not work!

 

On some trains, the placing of the containers depends on where the container will be getting off the train.  Example:  On a train from San Antonio to Neworleans, it would be best to have the Houston containers in the same cars, or be the top boxes of the stack?

Here in charlotte and monroe nc.Csx runs a lot of stack trains.One comes out of charlotte to monroe on the weekend.If fact when I get home from work.I find myself side by side with a stacktrain.Of course the train out runs me because of trafic.And some else I have noticed csx is runing more trains.Used to be we would see about 8 to 9 trains a day.Now its about over 13 to 15 trains.I can,t be to sure but the number but they are runing more trains.