Planning new layout with DCS - looking for some guidance

From the standpoint of control equipment, you appear to be good to go (based on the motive power assortment you described.  At some point, if you add Lionel Legacy motive power to your roster, you may want to consider the Legacy control system or "Legacy Lite" when it becomes available).

I'll leave it to others to describe the layout-related specifics.

Andrew,

 

1) What exactly is a Z4K track? Is this another name for one of the two loops assigned in the remote so that when I want to run a conventional engine I change the track in the remote to Z4K?

 

A Z4K Track is a method whereby a Z4000's voltage can be controlled by the DCS Remote. Under DCS, one would connect a Z4000's output to a pair of TIU channel inputs, one handle per channel. These could either be Fixed channels or Variable channels set to fixed mode, or a combination of the two.

Then, in a fashion similar to using Variable channels, each channel's voltage would be raised or lowered by using the DCS Remote, rather than by adjusting the Z4000's handles.

This allows for complete channel voltage control without ever having to touch the Z4000.

2) What is best practice for block length assignments when trying to accommodate both PS2/PS3 and conventional? My blocks are shorter than what they could be as described in Barry’s book. I am using the 37” flextrack so blocks made for DCS on this layout could be 12 – 15 feet in length. I think this is too long for conventional engines for a section with only a single power connection.

Consider that the ideal block length for DCS is 11 track sections and the maximum length of a block, if using all 37" sections, is about 34'. Ask yourself if a loop of track 34' long would work using just one connection from a transformer. I expect that, if your wiring is good and track connections are solid, it will work just fine.

Even though older postwear engines typically need more power than do modern engines, 34' blocks should not present a problem.

Here is my non DCS suggestion.

Put 2 lock-ons on the track.  One connected to your TIU.  The other one is 'available' for conventional running.  So you will need to have a control box and power source (like a Z-1000) or the ability to switch over the power to the conventional mode. 

Why?

Invariably, DCS or Lionel's digital system can cause problems.  Barry is a great source to solve or suggest how to resolve (I would buy his book, by the way).  But, it can be frustrating if you want to run a train and have no option available because something is screwy with your system.  At least you could default to conventional.  If the engine still did not operate, then maybe an engine issue.

Anyhow, I am just suggesting to have the back up easily available so that if you need to quickly default to conventional ops on short notice it is easy to do.  And since you are at the front end of construction, might be easy to 'install the feature'?

Thanks.

Andrew,

Is it correct to say that in my layout with two loops, I can set both tracks up to be Z4K tracks AND be able to operate both the PS2/PS3 engines in command and the PS1 engines conventional?

Yes.

Before I change the engines that I run on either of these tracks do I first change the track via the DCS handheld from TIU to Z4K once the Z4K tracks have been assigned?

You would always use Z4K Tracks via the TR screen, regardless of whether you run conventionally or viz DCS. You could also run both sets of engines together, at the same time and on the same track.

You would use Z4K Tracks when running conventionally to control power and the conventional engines.

For DCS operation, you would use Z4K Tracks via the TR screen to set power and then use the ENG screen to operate DCS (PS2/PS3) engines.

It's all in the book!

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

Barry,

Thank you for you comments on this. I created this post because of a statement in the paragraph at the bottom of page 54 in your guide. I know what my equipment is and how I want to run. I just wasn't clear on how to wire properly to get me there.

I am sure that as I move forward in implementing I will get plenty of use out your guide.

Thanks again,

Andrew

It's all in the book!

 

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

 

 

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/60-1279

 

Andrew.  Forget any talk about having to switch wiring to choose between conventional & DCS.  I use 6 TIU channels:  2 FIXED fed from a Z4000 using the Z4k receiver to control Z4000 output/TIU input voltage, and 4 VARIABLE fed from postwar ZWs.  I have 70 relatively short blocks, each fed through a toggle switch on the control panel.  This layout was built in 1992 for conventional and when DCS came out, TIUs were simply plopped into the circuits between transformers and control panel.  I can run conventional and DCS anytime, anywhere, even at the same time, using the same remote.  When running a conventional loco, I use the TRK button and control track voltage with the thumbwheel; when running a PS2 loco, I simply press the ENG button and control that loco with the thumbwheel.  I can even run on the same track in the same block, at the same time, if I have the conventional train heavier than the PS2 train.

If you set the VARIABLEs to fixed mode, by pressing the TRK button and rolling the thumbwheel, they will revert to variable until the next startup.

You'll find that you'll want to run conventional less often, since the DCS control is so much better.  I would up converting all my conventional can-motored locos to DCS, plus a 1950 Lionel Berkshire.

I have an MTH DCS system. I run MTH Protosound 1, Protosound 2 and Protosound 3 engines using the DCS with TIUs (using the VAR output).

I also run other non-DCS "conventional" engines made by Lionel and Williams. I routinely run any combination of these engines using the VAR output from my TIUs.  I like to have at least 7 volts on the track at all times when I operate both DCS and conventional engines on the same track.

To accomplish this I add "diodes" to all my engines which do not have MTH Protosound 2 or 3 speed control (or a Lionel equivalent control system).  The effect of the added diodes on my "conventional" engines is to set the "starting" voltage on the track to about 7 volts.  This means that the conventional engines will operate from "track" voltage anywhere in the range from 7 to 18 volts maximum.

Most of my engines have "can" motors.  A very few do not. (These are not usually  run along with "DCS" engines so they are never modified).

As a result in multiple lashups of engines I first adjust the Proto 2 or Proto 3 engines to the desired MPH. Then I adjust the voltage on the track so that the speed of the conventional engine closely matches the Proto 2 or Proto 3 engines MPH.

My defintions:

A "conventional" engine does not have speed control no matter who the manufacturer is.

A "speed" controlled engine is one made by MTH, Lionel or other manufacturers having a speed control board "built" in or one added by the user.