Postwar Lionel 6826 Flat with Christmas Trees

The one I have only has a single 6418-9 band retaining the "trees" and appears to be original; however, I do not have a record of its entire provenance.

Mine has 6 stakes, no band.  Bought it new in the box many years ago.

Thank you both for replying.
One with a band and no stakes, and one with six stakes and no band.

So I guess it did come both ways.

I looked carefully at my flatcar. I do not see any signs that it ever had stakes. No scratches around the stake pockets, on top, underneath, or inside. So I guess it came without them.

If anybody else has the car with good lineage, I'd appreciate reading which way theirs is configured.

I have several and they have bands.  Not to say that some didn’t come with stakes. Lionel did a lot of production changes over time. 

Don't have an answer on your question but thought I'd mention I've acquired some of those Lionel elastic tie-downs sold as remakes. Needed them for various PW flats. Arch-under bridge car, helicopters, etc. Think there's a guy on the auction site who sells them.

Thank you for the tip on the tie downs (elastic bands)

Can someone post a picture of what the band looks like and how long it is?

aussteve posted:

Can someone post a picture of what the band looks like and how long it is?

https://www.google.com/search?q=lionel+6418-9

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...06418009&match=0

The band BM0RAN4 pictured above looks good, which is no surprise being that it is a current Lionel factory part.
Reproduction bands can be another story.
I've seen reproduction bands done in white, both out of appropriate thin material, and thicker material. I don't remember Lionel ever using white bands.
There are also reproduction bands done in grey / silver that are made from material this is too thick to look correct.
Finally, there are bands that are made with thin grey/silver stock that actually look like the original bands.

Beats me how to order them and be positive you are getting the correct looking ones.

This is seller I bought my repro bands from:

http://stores.ebay.com/trains-...h&_sid=163598755

The version I have has 4 stakes and a elastic band. I am not the original owner, So don't know it's past history. Greenberg's book said it came with four. Original bands at 55+ years have long since lost their elasticy and don't hold the loads anymore. I don't recall the service manual stating 6 stakes, though.

The 6826 flat I have came with original box, shows no sign of having been run, and has 4 stacks with to hold the "trees" on the flat.  It does have a small rubber band around the "trees", but do not feel it is original.... still has too much tension for it's age.  But, there is no load tie down band with the car.

Jesse    TCA  12-68275 

The version I have has 4 stakes and a elastic band. I am not the original owner, So don't know it's past history. Greenberg's book said it came with four. Original bands at 55+ years have long since lost their elasticy and don't hold the loads anymore. I don't recall the service manual stating 6 stakes, though.

I got the manual out to recheck. Glad I did. The manual does not say how many stakes are used. The six is the minimum order quantity.
Thank you for the correction.  

Thanks again to everybody that has replied!

My 6826 didn't come with any trees, stakes or nuthin'.  So I improvised:  

Does not play well with gi-raffe telltales. 

Norma Bates Kitteh sold separately.  

Mitch 

I make my own bands using elastic band material from material store and fashion a piece of metal using tinplated sheet from S&K hobby metal then once folded over use a small awl and place 4 dimples in metal to firmly hold band ends in place. Can also make, using brass tubular rivits, the bands for the cable reels on flat cars, figure they cost me 10-20 cents a piece if that much vs 2-3 bucks a pop

Any idea which weed lionel used for trees- I hate to pay asking price of many dollars $12-$19 for the load of Christmas trees

The "Postwar Reproduction Handbook Guide", written by Joe Algozzini and published by the TCA states:

Christmas Trees - Distinguishing an original from a reproduction is extremely difficult. In fact rumor has it that the repros, like the originals, were picked from a swampy New Jersey grassland.

Probably not much help, but that's what I have on the subject.

SOunds like anything went--now to find me a swamp....and que the banjo music!!

I did a little poking on the web.
Could it be Cord Grass?
Ref: Vegetation of Salt Marshes in Southern NJ

Charlie,

The cord grass looks like a good match to the pictures I've seen of supposed originals. 

One of the TCA Quarterlies years ago (1980s?) mentioned that some collectors believed the "trees" came from the swampy area right behind the Lionel factory. I guess some guys went picking in this area with some reported success. I never heard of these "repros" being marketed in quantity, but they would make originals hard to identify.

It's also hard to believe that originals from that many years ago, or even those picked in the era of that Quarterly article, would be in any decent shape. With no attempt made by Lionel at adding preservatives, they would have to be extremely dry and fragile. I'm thinking something like the flowers from special occasions that my grandmother kept pressed in the pages of her Bible!

I would be very suspicious of the origin of any that are still in anywhere near decent shape. Some cars seen at train shows have just a few wisps of brown vegetation - probably the best bet for being originals. 

The closest I came was an attic find that had the correct, but empty flatcar (no stakes either), but a few ground up pieces of a brown material at the bottom of the carton under the track and transformer! 

Jim

Wouldn't a grass material disintegrate into dust after 50 yrs?

There was a story in CTT years ago--it should be findable if someone has the CD edition--about  Lionel employee who harvested the "trees" from land near the local airport.  I remember nothing lese, but perhaps it's a start.

On the subject of the grass and trees:

I think Jim's comments and Aussteve's question are well taken.

It's likely that any Christmas tree flatcar that had been used any significant amount would have little or nothing left of the trees.

The trees on my subject flatcar look good, but do not have the characteristic squeeze mark from being banded together. (Described in the TCA handbook I referenced above). The set also had reproduction elastic bands, so the load is probably a reproduction.  Even so, the "trees" are shedding leaves each time they are moved or touched by anything.

I didn't mention earlier that I had another Christmas tree flatcar put away. I purchased this car in the early 1970's, new old stock, in a separate sale box. The car has been put away ever since. I might have had it out once of twice to look at it. It's never been on the tracks or on display. It was always stored in living space, and the carton in which the car and it's box is kept has been rarely disturbed. This was long before anybody was reproducing much of anything for postwar Lionel. The box had $12 written in pencil on the end, which is probably what I paid.

Anyway, there is a good sized bunch of trees on the flat car, held together with an unbroken rubber band, and the trees are held to the flatcar with a rubber band instead of a silver/grey elastic band.  And there are no stakes. 

The trees are in great shape. Picture below:

Thanks for the photo, Charlie.

That's the best I've ever seen.

Jim

I love the description from this book: