Powerful Smoke Fan Motors

there are several techs on here that may be able to repair it for you GGG or Marty Fitzhenry check with them on the forum!

Alan

Hmm, not looking for a repair as I have revived several of those little motors that just sit around too long (brake cleaner and a bump from a 9 volt). Looking for a more powerful motor than the standard issue lionel/mth that has the same size output shaft and mounting screw hole spacing. I guess a better question to ask is if anyone has the specs on these motors so I can go to digikey or the like and look for an upgrade.

I believe most smoke fan motors are rated for 3.6V so most are already over driven. Careful placement of the resistor(s) and batting can greatly improve smoke output. Faster spinning won't necessarily make more smoke and in fact may actually reduce the effect as it just gets scattered more.

Pete

I would check with GGG or Marty Fitzhenry  I know they can possibly give you the specs your asking for!

Alan

Thanks, maybe they will chime in here and lay out some of the specs or I will make some physical measurements at home to see what can be made to fit. Interesting that most of the motors are 3.5V units that are then attached to a hot piece of metal... maybe that's why they crap out so often. Besides being made by the million in China of course.

Drowned the fan units in my AC-9.  The Lionel tech replaced both DC fan motors with Mabuchi FF-N20PN-08260's; part number 6108057210.

A while back I had a look for more powerful/reliable fan motors that would actually fit on a conventional smoke unit fan motor mount. Mabuchi make a practically infinite variety of these small motors. Some are rated at higher than 5 volts and have the sort of high RPM rating that's needed with RC cars and boats. 

But I never tracked down anything that would be an easy swap. More importantly, I second Norton's comments above about the possible downside of just increasing the airflow, which would do nothing to increase the smoke other parts of the unit (resistor and batting in particular, not to mention the right amount and type of smoke fluid) have the function of producing. Besides that, on late model engines where the chuff, labor effect/EFX and other functions are controlled by the main board and software of the system, using a very different spec fan motor from the original might not work at all.

I recently ran a first issue Legacy FEF-3, which is probably the most prodigious smoker Lionel has ever produced with thick/heavy plumes of smoke. Its smoke unit has a 6 ohm resistor and is well known for causing the AC regulator Lionel used with that particular unit to fail. The recent Legacy AC-9 referred to above was given some tweaks by Lionel (there's a thread referring to that from some months back) including a change in the code used in the electronics to ramp up the smoke output. It worked but suggests that just swapping over to a different fan motor won't produce any increase in smoke output; instead as Norton says it might just dissipate the smoke more quickly.

P.S. I have the unweathered version of the UP 4-12-2 and it has never been a great smoker despite having an auxiliary smoke unit for the whistle steam rather than a dual chamber unit like later Legacy steamers. I think that these engines shipped with the stock pre-cut batting that Lionel used at the time and which is not as good as the rope batting. Replacing that and ensuring that it's saturated with smoke fluid might improve your output more than trying a different fan motor. I haven't had mine apart to do this but it's helped on other Legacy engines.

Here are some Youtube links that show great info on increasing smoke output by maintenance to the smoke units:

First one from Mike Reagan; last 2 from Laidoffsick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkDlQ5Cwwlk&t=12s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRcpFRtA6IY#t=180
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1asUWbJtfok

RickM46 posted:

Drowned the fan units in my AC-9.  The Lionel tech replaced both DC fan motors with Mabuchi FF-N20PN-08260's; part number 6108057210.

Now we are talking business, I googled that Mfg part # and there is a mechanically identical one that spins almost 4000 rpm faster (FF-N20PA-10190)!

Thanks guys, I have and will continue to do all the easy wick/resistor replacements (not on a legacy) as commonly seen. But for a whistle smoke effect to really pop the steam in the air I want a bit more juice. The FF-N20PA-10190 I referenced is double the starting current (54mA) of 08260 (27mA) but given the noise of the current motor I am willing to bet that won't throw the 5 blinks code as it has to be less to start the fresh motor than the degraded one. Think its worth a shot!

By the way I actually think its a decent smoker; here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...amp;feature=youtu.be 

Just want something better if the fan is going to bite it soon.

Keep us updated when you install it in your UP 4-12-2 (6-81596).

RickM46 posted:

Doug, is the video showing the FF-N20PA-10190 fan motor for whistle and stacks?? 

Keep us updated when you install it in your UP 4-12-2 (6-81596).

No Rick, that video is the stock fans/smoke units. I will do some testing first on an external smoke unit and report back here. It will be slightly scientific by measuring plume size versus batting, resistor, and fan unit changes. Just waiting on resistors and batting to come in. I need to order the fan motors today as it looks like they may be slightly longer lead time from China.