Powering Control Panel LED's using a DZ 1002 controller????

Much easier to just wire two DZ-1002 in parallel--one on the control panel, one on the fascia. I have two wired in parallel for a different reason. One on the local panel, one on aremote panel for when the local tower is closed (no operator).

Ok, so I found this diagram on Z stuff’s website. Can someone explain how I would alter this diagram for a single bicolor led??? If it’s even possible?? My plan is to substitute the DZ1002 for the toggle switch in the diagram. I just do not like the visual personally of another DZ1002 switch on the control panel and I don’t need to be able to change the switch direction from the panel. I only want to have an indicator light so I know the orientation.

Mike

Not an expert, but what I would try is replacing the two LEDs with regular diodes, and then placing the bicolor LED between the resistor and the junction labeled "short pin." You have AC coming off the DZ-1000. You need to half-wave rectify it two different ways to get the bicolor to light red or green.

I tried this and it doesn't work.

There is more circuitry going on in the DZ-1002.

Also, it won't work for the DZ-2501 either.

For the DZ-2500Cs I designed a circuit to do what you are looking for; but it only works with the 2500s.

gunrunnerjohn has posted the DZ-1002 schematic in the past on this forum. I have it somewhere. Can't search right now, but will post if and when I find it.

So I understand resistors and diodes but is the part I circled in red what I am building to provide LED indicator lights for the panel? Is the green circled area 12vAC from the switch machine? Is the purple circled area a latching relay? I attempted using the latching relay system I devised for MTH Realtrax switches, but this caused the DZ1000 to not function correctly for some reason.  Thanks for the help for this electrical dumby.

Mike

At first glance, I'm not seeing an easy way to do a 2-pin bi-polar LED for this indicator.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

At first glance, I'm not seeing an easy way to do a 2-pin bi-polar LED for this indicator.

I have no problem using separate red and green LED's for this project. My first panel with Realtrax switches used separate ones as well, before I knew bicolor existed. lol

Using two LED's, no problem.  Look at the diagram I posted and just leave off the activation switches on the remote schematic at the bottom of the diagram.   Two wires and track common and you're all set with your indications.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Using two LED's, no problem.  Look at the diagram I posted and just leave off the activation switches on the remote schematic at the bottom of the diagram.   Two wires and track common and you're all set with your indications.

Thanks @gunrunnerjohn, I'll give it a try this weekend and report back.......or ask for help! lol

Mike

So, @gunrunnerjohn, I tried the indicator LED setup this afternoon. What I am getting is the following: Both red and green LED's are lit. When I press the switch button for green, the green LED goes off then back on but stays lit. Same for when the switch button for red is pressed....the red LED goes off then on and stays lit. Where could I have gone wrong? I have hooked the LED's to the R and L wires and track common??

Mike

You do realize that you were duplicating the circuit in the control button, not the switch, right?  If that doesn't work, I can't really imagine why since that's how the original DZ-1002 control works, and those lights work properly.

Wire the red path with the LED's and resistors, just leave out the switches.

@gunrunnerjohn this is exactly how I have it all connected. I substituted blue for the yellow lead for better visual.

Mike

Dumb question, if you connect the standard DZ-1002 controller to the switch, does it's LED's work properly?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Dumb question, if you connect the standard DZ-1002 controller to the switch, does it's LED's work properly?

Yes, the standard DZ 1002 LEDs work normally. I'm confused as well. This may be what @AlanRail meant when he said this didn't work??

If you exactly duplicate what's in the DZ-1002 as far as the resistor and led for each side, I can't imagine why it doesn't work.  I suspect I'd have to see this to figure out why.

@gunrunnerjohn what confuses me even more, is why my original setup with latching relays (That I used for the RealTrax switch indicator panel) makes the DZ1000-1002 switch-controller setup not work properly. The switches act up and do not switch consistently and the LED's do not respond. I unhook the DZ's from the latching relays and everything works fine.

Mike

I think you need someone that uses the DZ-1000 to do some experiments on the bench.

I might be willing to try that. What Ohm resistors should I use?

The schematic says all the resistors are 1.8K.

OK, I used 1K resistors since that's what I had. When I initially wired it up, the green LED went on and off correctly, but the red LED changed brightness without going out. After replacing the red LED, the circuit works. The wiring in the photos is hard to follow, but it's the same circuit depicted above. The leads from the switch machine are at upper left. The white and green jumpers match the insulation colors on this older DZ-1002.  The resistor is ahead of the LED on both legs.

@LT1Poncho Perhaps test your LEDs with a 9V battery in both directions?

@Ken Wing posted:

OK, I used 1K resistors since that's what I had. When I initially wired it up, the green LED went on and off correctly, but the red LED changed brightness without going out. After replacing the red LED, the circuit works. The wiring in the photos is hard to follow, but it's the same circuit depicted above. The leads from the switch machine are at upper left. The white and green jumpers match the insulation colors on this older DZ-1002.  The resistor is ahead of the LED on both legs.

@LT1Poncho Perhaps test your LEDs with a 9V battery in both directions?

Thank you @Ken Wing. I will test my LEDs with the battery first then rewire the and test again. Something is not right with the setup. This should work as you have proven. Thanks again

Mike

Nice work Ken, glad to see you could verify this.

@gunrunnerjohn and @Ken Wing I thought of something just now…… my AIU is attached to this circuit as well. It just dawned on me. With the AIU under the layout, I forgot it was wired into the circuit I’m working on 10 feet away. Now, the switch functions ok with the AIU involved, and the DCS app controls the switch as it should. I am going to unhook the AIU from the circuit and see if it affects the indicator panel LEDs. Should it? The DZ1000 and DZ1002 LEDs function normally with the AIU connected. Still very odd.

Mike

Well, disconnecting it will answer that question, hard to say without actually knowing exactly how it's wired.

I have no DCS experience

So to update the testing…. The AIU has no bearing on the indicator LEDs. However, the first time I set up the circuit @gunrunnerjohn posted, I used the pre wired LEDs in the first photo below. These LEDs both stayed on constant and only went off then back on when each controller button was pressed. So I switched them out for the basic non wired LEDs in the second pic. Now it all works just like @Ken Wing demonstrated. I don’t know what the difference in the two sets of LEDs is. The first set is what I used on my first indicator panel of which I posted a photo below. Could there be a pre wired resistor of some sort in there that is fouling this up? I have no idea. It looks like I will be using basic non wired LEDs for this new indicator panel. Thank you John and Ken for your help with this project. As always I’m hugely grateful for this forum and your knowledge.

Mike

Is it possible that what you described as "pre-wired LEDs" are in fact indicator lamps? Did you do the battery test on them to see if they light with both DC polarities?

Yes, they lit with both DC polarities. I guess that explains it. Didn’t realize there was a difference! Thanks Ken

Mike

Mystery solved, pre-wired LED's don't act like LED's at all!

thanks for not giving up, as I did ,  and getting this to work!!

I still have a few DZ-1000s that have not been replaced with DZ-2500Cs.

UPDATE

So after learning that there’s a difference between LED “indicator lights” and regular LEDs, I purchased more regular LEDs and wired them as @gunrunnerjohn suggested on a new custom control panel. It all works as I had planned. I can control the switches  with either the fascia mounted Dz1002’s or use the DCS AIU via the handheld DCS remote or DCS app. If I am running trains at the control area instead of roaming the layout, a quick glance at the control panel will show me the direction of switch throw. The photo below shows my progress to this point. I’m still hooking up wiring so the panel is not secured as of yet! Thanks again to all for your help and suggestions!

Mike

@LT1Poncho posted:

So after learning that there’s a difference between LED “indicator lights” and regular LEDs, I purchased more regular LEDs and wired them as @gunrunnerjohn suggested on a new custom control panel.

Another little pearl of learning in your scrapbook.

Details matter.  I rarely use the pre-packaged LED products so it didn't occur to me to make it clear what I was recommending.  I'll try to be more exact next time.