Premier vs legacy

I have a better chance of growing hair then getting both. Lol

Funniest thing I've read on this forum in a long time!! Glad to see there are a few with a good sense of humor!!

Do you currently have DCS or Legacy?  Does your roster have more MTH or Lionel engines?  Either would be fine but I would tend to ask for the one that fits my current roster.

A while back I posted photos of Legacy and Premier Rio Grande SD70 Heritage units that I had gotten a good deal on and asked for input on which I should keep. Most of the feedback was sort of incoherent, but one response pointed out that the gap between the body and the trucks was quite a bit smaller on the Lionel than on the MTH. Also, the sound on the MTH unit has an annoying whine to it, while the Legacy engine sounds quite pleasant (I have no idea which is more authentic). On that basis and a couple of other, lesser points, I decided to keep the Lionel and put the MTH unit up for sale. 

I like them both. Legacy seems to work fine on the larger layouts that also have DCS.

However, MTH would be my first choice. I think the engines look better and sound more realistic. But thats' just my opinion. 

@ Southwest Hiawatha  I've had two MTH SD70aces where the front pilots were bent down. One was almost touching the front wheels The steps were at a visble angle inward looking at it from the side.  

Hey Paul

I  had an engine like that also. Did MTH repair it for you? Mine was a fixed pilot model.

Clem k

I have one mth set that's all. No mth controller or legacy controller. All my rolling stock is conventional. 

I have only one Lionel Legacy engine, everything else is MTH. I really like the sounds on my lonely Lionel Dash-9 engine, so personally I think I would go with the Lionel to add one more Lionel engine to the fleet. My Dash-9 runs very smoothly as well, even at very low speeds.

I also remember seeing the pictures Southwest Hiawatha recently posted and I think the Lionel did look better with the smaller gap. I like both brands and a couple of others equally well, so I am not in the group that favors one brand over all the others. My main  requirements are that I like it, it's in my chosen road name (I sometimes fudge on this one) and it's a modern diesel with command control (DCS, TMCC or Legacy).

Have Santa look at the Rail King Imperial sd70, I have it and find it outstanding and a very good value.

It is not a scale model, however it seems to have most of the Premier features.

Fred

@ clem k No, I sent one back for a refund from the seller. The other I was able to very carefully bend it back into position which considerably reduced the gap.

The Lionel advantage is sound - otherwise MTH and Lionel are a toss up - love 'em both!

 My MTH RK MUs dont even have any type of announcements.

Yes, they do! They have station stop programming, which is much more extensive than simple freight or passengers station sounds.

They don't use the PFA key on the DCS Remote, rather, they use soft keys.

I like the operating system of MTH better than TMCC so never went to Legacy.  However I have to admit that Lionel sounds are better.

.....

Dennis

Both units offer great shell and add on detail.

Both control systems offer great speed control, lighting features, etc. (I'm talking about Legacy and not TMCC 1 which isn't in the same league as Legacy and DCS)

However, the Lionel sounds are better than MTH's.

The pilot/truck gap is less on the Lionel.

BAno

You have one MTH set already, why not expand on that by getting the MTH engine and a DCS controller. Sure both have their advantages and both are widely accepted and used, (I have both DCS and LEGACY). You can go deep into this hobby as most here on the forum, so my advice is stay in budget, determine your layout and Spend the next few years on MTH and then expand into Lionel. Reach out into the community and look for train clubs and swap meets where you can get 1st hand info from the hobbyists. Centuries ago we thought the world was flat, and here you are deciding between MTH and Lionel good start.

Next you'll start to discover, Atlas, Williams, K-Line, the TCA, York, LCCA, and there are more. Welcome 

Oingo,

First, thanks for the kind words -  they're appreciated!

If the PFA key doesn't do anything for your MU's, then it has what is called Transit Station Announcements. These allow you to actually program a route, out-and-back or looped, with stops along the way.

If you have a copy of The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition (and you should ), you'll find a very detailed discussion on pages 103-107. If you don't have a copy, an adequate description is typically available here. Unfortunately, that link appears to be broken at present.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

One thing to consider also is the difference in appearance between the Lionel model and the MTH Premier model.  I have noticed that MTH generally uses more of a flat paint, whereas Lionel models are generally shiny.  This may not make a difference to you, but may be worth considering.  I have some MTH Premier and Lionel Legacy engines and have enjoyed both.  I have not set up DCS or Legacy yet since I was just running a temp layout, but both MTH and Lionel engines have always run smoothly in conventional for me.

The prototype was delivered shiny:

Always a loaded question. I prefer Legacy it is easy to set up and the engines perform great with it. Only issues I ever see is when the engines are run on a DCS/Legacy layout.

...and then became rather "flat" looking, probably within a few minutes, ok hours...well, maybe days of seeing regular service.  Like everything else, I suppose it's just a matter of personal taste!

Looks like I am going to ask for the premier version. I already have a PS3 set and I also want to get the Amtrak intercity express set when it's released. I don't have a dcs or legacy controller yet. I plan on building my dream layout when I buy a home next year. 

Actually, Martin, you are partially right!  You're absolutely correct in saying that the prototype would be considered "weathered" once its paint went from shiny to somewhat flat-looking because it did in fact start out shiny.  My bad on that! 

However, regarding the relevance of paint finish to the subject of this thread, it couldn't be more relevant.  Lionel's rendition would be acceptable if you're modeling the loco as it appeared on day one right out of the paint shop, and/or if you like all your trains to be shiny and new.  MTH's is more accurate if you like to model your locomotives as if they've seen just a bit of use.  Not saying one way is better than the other, but very, very relevant nonetheless!

Otherwise, all manufacturers should just go ahead and paint ALL of their products with a high-gloss (or at least semi-gloss) finish as most locomotives and freight cars come out of the paint shop that way.  Yet they don't...not even Lionel.

"Lionel TMCC and Legacy do not have clear concise instructions,"

Talk about wild, inaccurate generalizations .  Each system comes or came with clear, concise instructions suitable for the simplicity and transparency of the systems involved.  No additional manuals or gurus needed in most instances.

I run TMCC and DCS on my layout.  Since I prefer Boston and Maine locos, the preponderance of my roster is MTH.  I just have a couple of Lionel locos that I do like.  When Lionel offers that Boston and Maine steamer that I just HAVE to have, then I will break down and get the Legacy system.  Bottom line:  Buy what you like, and like what you buy!

People do have preferences. Pros and cons to each choice. I happen to like both Lionel and MTH. MTH makes more in my chosen road name, so right now I have more MTH than Lionel. Also have both DCS and Legacy and they work just fine together, no problems with either system.

How do the prices compare?

The pilot and truck on the Lionel model are completely separate.  The pilot is attached to the body and swings just a little to accommodate the swing of the coupler.  I've had the opportunity to actually compare both manufacturers models side by side and see them both operate on the same occasion.  Here are a couple of shots of the two.  They are not the greatest, due to using a point-and-shoot camera and since they were both running, but you can see the differences in the pilots:

 The MTH model:

The Lionel model:

My $0.02 is that the Lionel model is a little more detailed and has a better-looking pilot.  And the sounds are great.  The two Lionel models in the above photo are mine, and I've experienced no operational issues with them, even running them all day at train shows.

The MTH model is less expensive, and it runs well.  In operation, few people will notice the differences in detail.  I don't like the pilot gap, and I prefer the shiny like-new paint job of the Lionel model, but these are my personal preferences.  If you want to further weather the locomotive, I'd say the MTH model would be the better candidate as it would require less work to get it to a good weathered look.

Andy

I run both systems Legacy and DCS.  They run great and both are easy to set up.  The only issue I have is from time to time DCS will loose contact with engine and become "out of range", because of the homerun wiring that has to be just right on your layout.  Other then that I have no issues.

Actually that's not true, with the Lionel sensor track all you do is run the train over it.  You are now up and running.

I personally find the DCS a clunky unfriendly remote.  Horrible thumbwheel with no precise control, and those cryptic soft key menus, just to do things like double blow a horn or something. By the time you scroll through the menu the train is past where you wanted to perform whatever action you were trying to do.   Plus all I see on here is post after post of people with issues with signals, engine not found, trains taking off full speed.  Sorry have to give it to Legacy, for precise easy control.  The problem is no one wants to spend time reading a manual.  If they did you'd find the Legacy remote is easy to use.  When I first got it all I did was sit down with the manual and an engine on the track and went through every page in the manual and tried it out and realized this is super easy and no cryptic soft keys, just easy icons.

Quick start instructions were invented for one reason.  Americans too lazy to read a manual.  What's so sad is people short change themselves that way because they don't know what a product can do.

Yes MTH engines are cheaper, So if cost is an issue then go with MTH.  I'm up to 23 Legacy Engines  ( I don't run conventional) and never have any issues.  I had 3 MTH engines and one would always act up with Engine not found and having to constantly delete and reload.  One worked OK. and One would stall whenever I tried doing the PA Announcement ( no one could figure that one out).  So for me personally I like the Legacy system.  Yes there are some MTH engines I'd like that Lionel may not have, but I can live without them.  I just want to go run trains, not have to deal with intermittent issues. 

The reality is that nothing is perfect.  DCS or Legacy. both may/will have issues pop up from time to time...buy what you like and enjoy regardless if it's a Premier or Legacy version.  Some prefer one over the other and many have both systems, there is no right or wrong.