Preowned versus used

"Pre-owned" is just a fancy term for "used." 

I think the term originated from car dealers.  After all, you don't think all those "pre-owned" luxury cars just sat in their owners garage?

Rusty

Remember when you could buy a used car? Now you can buy a "preowned" or "certified"car. It must be better some how.

  Perception is everything in an ad. Pre-owned suggests less use simply by omitting the base word. Prints in reds for excitement, green or gold for value, white for clean, purple for luxury, blue for trust. Mix and match too 

    Silly but as just effective as "On Sale" though it's only 2¢ less. Hopefully excitement overides reluctance.

  Ebay is a hard market anymore, not too many folks looking to sell off a few things anymore. It is a full on market.

 You guys may not buy into it, but it will appeal to thousands of others, and you will buy into something. I.e. something you read WILL eventually intrigue you. 

   I'd bet youd repond better to "mildly run", than " barely used". A number to refrence and your deeply thinking it over; and that's part of  what a good ad is about.   And selling one. Drafts in various styles are going to land them. Most drafts never get used.

  I'm not immune either, just more aware because I studied it. Some of the "cheese" kinda made me sick, even mad, so I hung it up. But some of it was tons of fun.

Adriatic posted:

  Perception is everything in an ad. Pre-owned suggests less use simply by omitting the base word. Prints in reds for excitement, green or gold for value, white for clean, purple for luxury, blue for trust. Mix and match too 

    Silly but as just effective as "On Sale" though it's only 2¢ less. Hopefully excitement overides reluctance.

  Ebay is a hard market anymore, not too many folks looking to sell off a few things anymore. It is a full on market.

 You guys may not buy into it, but it will appeal to thousands of others, and you will buy into something. I.e. something you read WILL eventually intrigue you. 

   I'd bet youd repond better to "mildly run", than " barely used". A number to refrence and your deeply thinking it over; and that's part of  what a good ad is about.   And selling one. Drafts in various styles are going to land them. Most drafts never get used.

  I'm not immune either, just more aware because I studied it. Some of the "cheese" kinda made me sick, even mad, so I hung it up. But some of it was tons of fun.

What does it mean when you use all bold?

Its an eBay thing - there's been a slew of changes recently...

When you list - there are only 2 condition choices in that category..."New" and "Used"...I think Used is getting translated to Previously Owned.

I don't mind "pre-owned" for Trains though...there's tons of you guys who buy these things and never even take the plastic off the box.

I just got some K-Line F7s...still in plastic, almost 20 years old...but- not really "used"

Semantics.

All used is pre owned. Not all pre owned is used. TCA definition of pre owned is "Mint".

If eBay is changing used to pre owned then its being wrongly applied.

Pete

Simple......used=$50.00   "pre-owned"=$100.00

If you list an item as NIB, my thought is that is pre-owned. Taken out of the original packaging, used.

Roving Sign posted:

Its an eBay thing - there's been a slew of changes recently...

When you list - there are only 2 condition choices in that category..."New" and "Used"...I think Used is getting translated to Previously Owned.

I don't mind "pre-owned" for Trains though...there's tons of you guys who buy these things and never even take the plastic off the box.

I just got some K-Line F7s...still in plastic, almost 20 years old...but- not really "used"

Be aware there's no requirement, legal or otherwise tha something pre-owned has not been used. Never used may be - as a buyer - your interpretation of "pre-owned" but it may not mean that to whom you bought from.

When words take on a pejorative meaning we change them.  They still mean the same thing, but somehow the new word sheds all the baggage.

Handicapped became Physically Challenged.  Retarded became Mentally Challenged.  The problem is, the new term takes on the old baggage, and has to be changed again.  And again.

Does it really matter, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Miketg

bob2 posted:

When words take on a pejorative meaning we change them.  They still mean the same thing, but somehow the new word sheds all the baggage.

Handicapped became Physically Challenged.  Retarded became Mentally Challenged.  The problem is, the new term takes on the old baggage, and has to be changed again.  And again.

Good point!

Still, there is a huge difference between "just like the day I bought it new" and "I've almost run the wheels off it over several years."

I'd think for stuff like this, there should be a way to ID something you own but is still in the box and never used or opened. Or, you opened it to be sure it was in there and not broken, but never messed with beyond that.

Or is there a rating like that already? I'd think for Lionel stuff, there'd be a system like that already in place to explain such things with an item for sale.

Miketg posted:

Does it really matter, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Miketg

Yes and no. When I first noticed the use of preowned I thought it was just one seller trying to scam buyers. But this morning the term seems to be on every listing of used trains.

Oh, well. I have cut way back on my buying train stuff online anyway. Private sales and train shows only!

I almost bought a "certified" used car a few months ago.  The "certified" meant the original car manufacturer through the dealer had extended the full warranty bumper to bumper up to 100,000 miles for as long as you owned the car.  Warranty disappears when you sell the car.  The price was a tad higher so I'm sure they had added some actuary assessment. 

On trains, I prefer to see the physical piece first.  Here is an example.  This boxcar is new, never ran and never been out of the box.

A car could be new and never been run and still have your fried chicken fingerprints on the side of the car.  Never been run could also have been on your shelf collecting dust and smoke fluid residue. 

I think a lot of pictures would certainly clear up some possible issues.  I'm with C. W.,  I only buy at local train shows and at York.

I agree with tinplate art's post....SEMANTICS!!  Most of my buying is for Prewar, that I enjoy restoring, with a little bit of work.  The one term that irks me is "Mint".  My thought of something Mint, is never taken out of the box, and the box is near perfect condition.  Once the item is taken out of the box, even just for photos, it is No Longer MINT, period.  That is just my 2 cents on the use of Mint.

If I buy online, I want plenty of clear well lit photos.  The dark photos, or blurry photos, are a quick pass over without considering of buying.  I look at those sellers, as trying to hide defects.

Roving Sign posted:

I don't mind "pre-owned" for Trains though...there's tons of you guys who buy these things and never even take the plastic off the box.

That's the definition of new.

What, me worry?

Everything is "pre-owned" unless you are buying it from the OEM factory floor.

The Importer owned it, the Warehouse Whole-seller, and the Retail Dealer.

It is "used" or "demoed" or "Test run only" if ran by anyone.

To answer CW's initial question;  It is something New that eBay is doing to ANY train related listing, regardless of manufacturer.  I have a listing, which was checked off as "used", and looking at it now, it shows 'preowned Lionel'.

TeleDoc posted:

To answer CW's initial question;  It is something New that eBay is doing to ANY train related listing, regardless of manufacturer.  I have a listing, which was checked off as "used", and looking at it now, it shows 'preowned Lionel'.

Thanks. Too bad, I think the change is going to encourage people to play word games with their listings to mislead or deceive buyers.

I don't.  If all "used" tags have been converted to "pre-owned" then the two mean exactly the same.  The only difference is more than doubling the characters in the word - just like my previous examples.

C.W., I agree with your last post.  It all boils down to getting people to looking at your listing, with a GOOD description, with good clean multiple photos.  Just ignore the eBay addition, and go beyond it.

C W Burfle posted:

I've noticed that many of the EBay listings that I am seeing for Lionel trains describe them as "preowned" instead of "used". 

Is that an EBay change or sellers choice?

I guess preowned sounds better to some. It seems silly to me.

Good question!  If you recall, Mercedes Benz introduced this marketing term in the early 1990s. When I was in law school, we actually analyzed it.  As someone stated above, pre-owned doesn't necessarily mean it's been used.  If the buyer, however, is led to believe that the item that is pre-owned is also unused, but in fact is used, this is actionable.  One basic theory is fraud in the inducement.  Shrinking the issue to toy trains, based on values, you'd probably be in small claims court and bringing the case yourself, as hiring an attorney would likely cost more than the recovery.  

My interpretation:

Used could be taken to imply the unit is functional, since the item has been used in it's intended function prior to being resold.

Pre-Owned makes no such claim of functionality.  Just because someone else owned it, doesn't mean it functions. 

Unfortunately this would (on the surface, at least) seem to give more of an advantage to the "I know nothing about trains and can't test this thing" crowd of sellers. 

Technically it could be considered more in line with formal TCA grading I suppose, since those also are based on physical appearance, not functionality.

-Dave

MartyE posted

What does it mean when you use all bold?

  Here, it means the composer loaded in bold and didn't offer the menu to change it. I don't have the slightest idea how to force command for Android. 

  Some people use bold because it can be easier to see.

 Expression or seperation are common design reasons.

Somewhere online it is probably SHOUTING. But haven't you noticed more of "shouting"? Devices get stuck or glitch on sending/post sometimes.

 "Device" apps,.usually google, kinda do what they want. Many typos you see today belong to the tech vs the technician. E.g. You see three lines of text and five lines out of site, the words might start changing . Scroll, a random word might vanish or change or get added. I've had Lionel part numbers suddenly appear in my text, names of people Ive never typed, ever.  Google is not my friend. Mr Android the third is on the edge; never again.

I did catch the irony of the subject vs. nothing but bold type. 

And keeping an ad savy lawyer on retainer isn't a bad idea either, lol. 

Anything is arguable. The text as a word is a fact. Youd have to prove that fact determined truth in another for it to be relavent. We all know it's "legal"(for today) along with the other choices above. But we are already drawing slightly different reactions out of the same text. Pre-owned will "win" in near any poll till a new phrase taylored to future perceptions rolls in. It's not 5 & Dime business, I'd bet my Rock Bottom- Dollar Store it still tops an acceptance poll.

I like Vintage and Classic better than preowned or used if it is preowned and old.  These two terms are way more stylish and snobbish and used at Estate sales.

Charlie