Pricing Lionel trains

You do have a significant task ahead of you.  One choice is to try and find collectors in your area and have them look at the trains and make you an offer.  I would get at least 3 different cash bids.  If you sell them yourself, then I would use the ebay completed sales on items to get an idea of the asking price.  I prefer to look at the items with multiple bids that successfully sold.  Use your smart phone or digital camera to take the pics and upload them to ebay.  If the items have been painted on or modified cosmetically then the asking price will be dramtically lower.  If new custom electronics, TMCC, etc have been added then that would increase the value of the item. 

You can get a start by getting a copy of Greenberg's Guide to Lionel trains, it will give you an idea of the value as well as help  identify what the item is. As suggested you can also check out ebay and other auction sites for recent sales (not the buy-it now price). 

Generally you can get more for you items on the East Coast than in the western states.

Personally, I take the value in Greenberg's and spend between 60% and 75% on a given item.

you are in train country. 

http://www.railserve.com/Model...merica/Mid-Atlantic/

If you have part numbers you can check E Bay,that will give you some idea of what they will bring.

Mikey

Thanks for the speedy replies. I immediately thought about getting Greenburg Guide but there is a lot of stuff that I am very unfamiliar with - like little infra-red devices that actuate things like crossing gates. What I do recognize is the age an rarity of some of the items. There is a 6517  bay window caboose that has the "Lionel Lines" underlined. I found out, on an internet site, that these were produced for only two years. Also there is a 3464 operating box car from 1949-52. Sad to say both of these items have seen a lot of playtime. The caboose is missing the light assembly and the box car doesn't have the mechanism. It is still kind of rare.

My problem is that I am involved in teacher training and don't have much spare time once the term starts.

By the way, Among the items in the collection were new Lionel catalogs - are they serious with the prices?

As far as the new catalog prices go, street prices are usually a bit less than MSRP, but they are getting out of hand.

The Name "LIONEL" does NOT automatically mean $$$$$$, contrary to what many not in the hobby think, condition makes a difference, and the other big mistake many make trying to sell a large collection, is trying to sell it in one lot, and expecting high book value for everything.

Please do not take offense to the above paragraph, those are the most common mistakes made by those selling in your situation. While we all understand that it would be nice to sell it all to one person in one transaction for top dollar, the reality is very few people are looking for ALL the items in most large collections. More often there will be many people each looking for a few different items, that may encompass a large portion of a large collection. Usually the only people looking to by ENTIRE LARGE collections, are those who are going to sell them piecemeal themselves, and they are NOT going to pay top dollar, they are often looking to only pay 20 cents on the dollar, they are in it as a business, not a hobby.

To get max return takes a LOT of effort, the more return you want the more effort you need to put into it. If the goal is just to move a large collection QUICKLY, and get what happens, an auction house like Stout's or some of the others may be your best bet. I haven't looked at New York's Craigslist, but here in the Portland, OR area, there are several ads looking for Lionel, Flyer, Marx etc trains, wont be the best return, but may be the fastest/easiest way to go.

Doug

Yes, they are serious about the prices which is why i probably won't be buying much of anything, if at all out of the 2016 catalog.

Howdy,

I've been in the hobby, off and on, for about 40 years (give or take a few).  I've been buying and selling N Scale, HO Scale and O Scale for most of those 40 years as well.  One thing I can surely tell ya, it ain't the market it used to be.  Ebay is usually a pretty good indicator of current prices (demand) but it can run hot and cold too.  I've personally sold things for much more than I thought they were worth and I've lost money as well.  Such is the market.  Which is my point.  You will only sell an item for what a buyer is willing to pay for that item.  I know, it sounds basic, but excluding "Ultra Rare", "One of a Kind" or "Limited Production" pieces, you will only get what the market is willing to tolerate.  And that is why I like Ebay.  Sure, I'm just like everyone else who's looking for a deal but I would like to get the most money I can for the items I'm going to part with.  Sounds hypocritical but that's just basic economics, "Buy Low, Sell High". 'Nuff said.

Chief Bob (Retired)

mikey posted:

If you have part numbers you can check E Bay,that will give you some idea of what they will bring.

Mikey

Sound advice.  You'll need to know the Item Number if you're going to sell the trains at anything other than a train show or selling the collection outright.

So, I'd start making a list of known items....and start following them on eBay....and see what happens, realizing that eBay is not gospel....by a long shot.

Good luck!

LIGuy831 posted:

By the way, Among the items in the collection were new Lionel catalogs - are they serious with the prices?

 

Yeah, many others have been saying the same thing...

If you want to find average market values, look at several different sources from past auctions (not the same source, ie, bay, with different auctions of the same item), private sales, etc.  Also, scan classifieds and secondary market results-all time consuming which you stated you don't have.  It wouldn't hurt to have some cash bids made on the entire collection as someone mentioned above-selling a large collection a piece at a time is an exercise in frustration.

I wouldn't use the Greenberg guide.  Those prices are out of date as soon as it's published and often are far out of reality.  There's been multiple threads on the subject, do a search.  Opinion.

You can try to sell on ebay but I have been told that ebay charges a percentage fee, so if something sells for $100.00 you pay ebay a 5% of the sale total sale amount that's $5.00.

I use www.choochooauction.com where they charge a very small listing fee(maybe 30 to 50 cents per item)and you don't pay a percentage fee of the sold item. You are responsible for shipping and paying of any taxes if applicable.

Lee Fritz

 Also there is a 3464 operating box car from 1949-52. Sad to say both of these items have seen a lot of playtime. The caboose is missing the light assembly and the box car doesn't have the mechanism. It is still kind of rare.

I am not aware of any rare 3464 operating boxcars. In my area, nice ones are slow sellers when put out at train shows for 10-15 dollars. I suggest you get a used, recent edition of a Greenberg guide to have some guidance on what you have (but not the value). In the world of trains, variations are important, and can mean a big difference is value.
And condition is everything. Items with "a lot of playtime" generally have low value.

When I want to know what a certain train item is going for, I use EBay to look at sold items. In order for EBay sales prices to have some meaning, there has to be multiple sold items (not just ended listing), and the extreme prices (low and high) discarded. Again, the sold lots have to be for the same variation and same condition.

When I sell on Ebay, I figure the total commissions to be 15-20 %. EBay charges 10% on the lots I sell, but they also charge their commission on shipping, and PayPal gets a separate commission on the payment.

C W Burfle posted:

 Also there is a 3464 operating box car from 1949-52. Sad to say both of these items have seen a lot of playtime. The caboose is missing the light assembly and the box car doesn't have the mechanism. It is still kind of rare.

 

I am not aware of any rare 3464 operating boxcars. In my area, nice ones are slow sellers when put out at train shows for 10-15 dollars. I suggest you get a used, recent edition of a Greenberg guide to have some guidance on what you have (but not the value). In the world of trains, variations are important, and can mean a big difference is value.
And condition is everything. Items with "a lot of playtime" generally have low value.

When I want to know what a certain train item is going for, I use EBay to look at sold items. In order for EBay sales prices to have some meaning, there has to be multiple sold items (not just ended listing), and the extreme prices (low and high) discarded. Again, the sold lots have to be for the same variation and same condition.

When I sell on Ebay, I figure the total commissions to be 15-20 %. EBay charges 10% on the lots I sell, but they also charge their commission on shipping, and PayPal gets a separate commission on the payment.

Sounds like ebay is really scalping you bad!!  That's why I mentioned a site I am more comfortable with then ebay.

About the boxcar that don't have the assembly functional, you won't get much for it even being rare as it must be in excellent shape to get top dollar.

Lee Fritz

Sounds like ebay is really scalping you bad!!  That's why I mentioned a site I am more comfortable with then ebay.

To each their own. EBay has the largest audience, which usually makes up for the high commission.
If you know what you want to get, the OGR swap board is an option, but LIGUY831 does not know what to ask.

No offense but when talking online auction sites, your best bet for top dollar is ebay. Any other auction sites are mere shadows of shadows of ebay, and you're more likely to find the "crazies" that run up the bids on ebay too.

ebay lets you list so many items for free per week/month, and takes 10% of the final price.

ebay does NOT take a piece of the shipping. They give you a DISCOUNT if you use their integrated service to buy and print shipping labels. This discount usually offsets the 3% that paypal charges.

That said, if you don't have the time to dedicate to sorting it all out, it may be best to step aside and let someone else take care of it.

ebay does NOT take a piece of the shipping.

Below is a quote from EBay, they most certainly do charge their commission on shipping fees, which may or may not be offset by whatever shipping discount they offer:

If the item sells, you're charged a final value fee. Final value fees are calculated based on the total amount of the sale and are charged per item.

The total amount of the sale is the final price of the item, shipping charges, and any other amounts you may charge the buyer. Sales tax is not included.

86TA

 

 

I wouldn't use the Greenberg guide.  Those prices are out of date as soon as it's published and often are far out of reality.  There's been multiple threads on the subject, do a search.  Opinion.

best advice i've seen on this topic...so many people today that get boxes of trains and see $$$$,end up with alot less. -Jim

I don't believe Greenbergs price guide is worth the paper it's printed on.  I have never bought or sold any Lionel trains for the prices they list.  If you try to sell at their listed values, you'll wait a long time to make a sale.

As far as the Bay goes, prices are all over the place.  I've been picking up some of the modern reissue 6464 boxcars lately, often at half their original price.  I wouldn't buy them when they first came out as I thought they were over priced.  

IMO, the Greenberg Lionel Price Guide is absolutely useless.          If you want to know what the real world prices are, do a search on eBay on each item and see what they are selling at.  You may be surprised to learn that unless you have an extremely rare piece like an excellent condition 5344 scale Hudson or a Jersey Central FM; today's train prices on used PW stuff are quite a bit less than they were 15 years ago. As for the prices on the new 2016 Chinese trains,  pick up a Lionel , MTH or Williams catalog and judge the value for yourself.

Matt Kirsch posted:

...ebay does NOT take a piece of the shipping...

They do now thanks to sellers who for years on end continually listed $1200 items for 1.00 + 1199.00 shipping. While this was always a TOS violation for fee avoidance, the volume of complaints was just too much to stay on top of, thus the policy change.

okay Ebay charges 10% on final price and shipping. Paypal charges like 2% on total amount. Choochoo charges $0.25 to list and 10% of selling price not 5%. Greenburg's pocket guide take with a grain of salt ( large one a fair amount of the time) as it says it's a guide and to be honest it's about a year old before you get it. right now 2017 is getting the proof reading and editing and getting ready to be sent to the printer in the next 2 to 3 months ( would be my guess ) and will be out in October so when you get the book even in October it's already about 9 months to a year old. Now don't take me wrong it gives a good guide but I understand the price can be up or down from that very easy the best way to me is check Ebay completed auction and then look at 1 how many bids, 2 how much shipping, Shipping? yes a lot figure that into there bid also. 

Greenburg's pocket guide take with a grain of salt ( large one a fair amount of the time) as it says it's a guide and to be honest it's about a year old before you get it.

When I recommended getting a used Greenberg guide, I meant a full sized one with details about many of the items. (Ignore the prices). One can also use the Tandem Associates website.

I've liquidated a few collections, and just finished a rather large one that had everything from post war, to lots of MPC to some newer stuff. It takes time, in fact this last one took over a year, but this is how I maximized the returns;

First, almost everything I prepped for sale, I would offer here on the "For Sale" forum. Then it was on to other options;

For anything that looked like a high priced locomotive, in really good operating condition, ebay all the way.

For lower end locomotives, in good to excellent shape, one pass at the local TCA show, then on to ebay (most would sell at the show)

For higher end passenger sets and quality (standard O or good postwar) rolling stock, ebay.

For the common, and especially MPC, rolling stock, I would take to the TCA show first and sell at really low prices, think $5-$10 each. Sounds like nothing, but it adds up, and it's easy to move a lot of volume at those shows. What's left, I'd group by railroad and on to ebay.

Anything that was in lesser condition, or had broken parts, sell here on the forum, or at a show. Amazing how many people don't read the details of what they bid on at ebay. Then when they get the item they want a return which has all the backing of ebay.

Best of luck, remember, put it on this site first. The easiest sales to the nicest people.

Tim

I would list each individual item on ebay with a starting bid of $1.00, and let the market determine the ending price.  It's usually a good indicator of street value, and not some printed guide.

It's been my experience that between ebay and paypal fees, you can expect to pay around 17%.  The real hassle comes in when you have to box up and ship the items.   I have a postage scale at home, and I always box up and weigh and measure items so when I create my eBay listing I have the shipping info ready.

Or, you can spend hours researching to find a realistic street value for each piece, and then try to sell it either here, a table at a show, or wherever.

Best of luck.

Matt Kirsch posted:

No offense but when talking online auction sites, your best bet for top dollar is ebay. Any other auction sites are mere shadows of shadows of ebay, and you're more likely to find the "crazies" that run up the bids on ebay too.

ebay lets you list so many items for free per week/month, and takes 10% of the final price.

ebay does NOT take a piece of the shipping. They give you a DISCOUNT if you use their integrated service to buy and print shipping labels. This discount usually offsets the 3% that paypal charges.

That said, if you don't have the time to dedicate to sorting it all out, it may be best to step aside and let someone else take care of it.

eBay calculates the 10% final value fee based on the selling price + shipping.  However, you are correct in that eBay offers shipping discounts of 10-13% that at least recovers the 10% final value fee applied to the shipping charge and sometimes may recover the PayPal fee of 2.9% + $0.30 of the selling price + shipping.

You also are correct about the free listings and much broader exposure that nets higher selling prices than any other venue, plus you get what you pay for, i.e., a higher search engine ranking for merchandise sold on eBay versus other websites.

What, me worry?

LIGuy831 posted:

My problem is that I am involved in teacher training and don't have much spare time once the term starts.

 

 

I'm retired and willing to research and provide annotated pricing on your items if you want to send a list to the email address in my profile.  No fee or obligation.  Just empathy for the task you face. 

It hasn't really been mentioned yet, but is worth noting for those unfamiliar with Lionel trains.  Most items were only made for 2 or 3 years in the post war period, but that does not make them rare.  Lionel made so many of each item in that period that most of the products are still exceptionally easy to find and for very low prices.  

The internet, and the auction site in particular has changed the world of collectables over the last two decades.  Where once someone had to use a specialist to locate niche market items, now anyone, anywhere in the world, has access to listing from everyone else, everywhere in the world.  Lots of people found out that their collections were not nearly as rare as they thought they were.  

On using the big auction site, if you want to move product fast, that is the way to go.  You will probably return less for the trains, but the audience is so insanely much larger that it really makes things simpler.  Also there are buyers out there that will not buy without a proper return/dispute resolution process, and you will not reach those buyers through other venues.  You also don't get haggled in an auction like you will at a show.  For example, at my local hobby shop I'l pay $10-15 for post-war or MPC era rolling stock.  I can see it and touch it, and make sure it is exactly to my liking.  On the auction site I'll pay $8-12 for that same piece, knowing that my final shipped cost is usually in that same $10-15, and I have a recourse if something is wrong with the product.  from private sellers at a show, however, I'm going to end up haggling someone down to maybe $5-10 for the piece, as once I walk away from the table it's mine and I'm not going to see a refund.  Also see many more folks trying to hustle bad product at the shows, by percentage, than on the auction site.  

If you do decide to sell at a show, make sure you have a test track capable of demonstrating that all features of your engines and accessories work exactly as they are supposed to.  Folks are going to be very happy if they can test things right there, and not have to hassle folks from clubs  to test on their layout, often a difficult task.  

One last thing, if you sell through the forum here, or other classified listings, never ask buyers to use friend's and family option on pay-pal or ask the buyer to pay those fees.  You will immediately lose the sale for anyone that is honest and it paints you as someone that is willing to cheat and scam.  If you're willing to cheat pay-pal, the buyer has no reason to think you would not cheat them as well.  

JGL

That offer of a free evaluation service?  Jump on it.  Just don't let the stuff out of your sight without payment, and forget about consignment.

If you are still in school, you will be big bucks ahead to devote your time to that, and unload the entire collection to the pros.  They give you 40-50% of the actual value, and save you hundreds of hours of your time, which is the most valuable thing you have.

I buy and sell eBay, and am quite happy with the results.  I would never, ever waste my time with buckets of small items from somebody else's collection.  If you decide to do that, do not forget the time and gasoline you will spend packing and going back and forth to UPS.

lots of good advice on here if your selling a multi thousand $$$ postwar collection thats boxed, but from what the o.p. has so far said he has ,its sounds  like  a bunch of sandbox items bought out of bargin boxes at local train shows.....Jim

I could help you with it, I can hardly call myself an expert, but I do manage to get my trains moving when I want to sell them.

JohnGaltLine posted:

One last thing, if you sell through the forum here, or other classified listings, never ask buyers to use friend's and family option on pay-pal or ask the buyer to pay those fees.  You will immediately lose the sale for anyone that is honest and it paints you as someone that is willing to cheat and scam.  If you're willing to cheat pay-pal, the buyer has no reason to think you would not cheat them as well.  

Hear! Hear!  I understand the moderators do not  police transactions, but adding a rule discouraging open displays of such dishonesty in for sale/trade posts may be worth consideration.

What, me worry? 

Alfred E Neuman posted:

JohnGaltLine posted:

One last thing, if you sell through the forum here, or other classified listings, never ask buyers to use friend's and family option on pay-pal or ask the buyer to pay those fees.  You will immediately lose the sale for anyone that is honest and it paints you as someone that is willing to cheat and scam.  If you're willing to cheat pay-pal, the buyer has no reason to think you would not cheat them as well.  

Hear! Hear!  I understand the moderators do not  police transactions, but adding a rule discouraging open displays of such dishonesty in for sale/trade posts may be worth consideration.

 

What, me worry? 

Really? I did not know it was dishonest. PayPal still charges 3 percent to transfer money through a credit card. I thought they still made money on the transaction.  Guess I will have to change my ways.  Thanks for the heads up...

Regarding PayPal: Aren't we all friends here?

Sure, until the deal goes south or an item is received damaged or not as described, or is not received at all...

J Daddy posted:

Really? I did not know it was dishonest. PayPal still charges 3 percent to transfer money through a credit card. I thought they still made money on the transaction.  Guess I will have to change my ways.  Thanks for the heads up...

From the user agreement:  

4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

In layman's terms, you can not ask a buyer to pay the fees that pay-pal charges.  You can charge a handling fee, but this fee must be the same for cash, check, or money order transactions as well.  

JGL