Primer doesn't stick

Barrier is a primer.  You need to use one made to work with plastic and the type of paint you plan to use.  I would go to a hobby shop and buy plastic model paint and primer.  Also, before the primer, you need to wash the plastic in water and cheap dish soap (cheap so it doesn't have any additives). Then you need to dry the plastic.  Wear gloves so the oil from your skin doesn't get on the plastic.  Some people also prep with alcohol.  If your primer doesn't stick after washing you could try that.  Make sure you let it dry according to the primer instructions before handling.

George

Thanks George. Everything is clean and dry and handled with nitrile gloves. This is the first time I couldn't get Rustoleum primer to stick. I have no idea what kind of plastic this but the instructions specify Barrier primer. I Googled barrier primer and come up with some commercial stuff that's not only expensive but seems to only come in large quantities.

I would have to read the instructions for the hundredth time but I'm pretty sure it says soap and water only to clean prior to painting. I can wipe the primer off with my finger.

I was hoping someone familiar with BTS kits would jump in here. The stuff doesn't feel like plastic so I'm not sure what it is but the directions say it's either injection molded styrene or cold cast urethane.

I don't want to hit this with something that melts it for the primer coat.

What BTS kit is this specifically?

Contact Bill Wade, BTS.   He responded quickly, to any question I had about BTS kits.

You said you washed in with soap and water already.  Give it a good wipedown with 91% Isopropyl Alcohol, using gloves of course.  Try Krylon UltraMax primer, as an alternative to Rustoleum.  Rustoleum gives me nothing but grief when I use it, and I never have a problem with using Krylon.

I'm finding that standard etch primer in a rattle can, sticks to styrene.

Cheers

mwb posted:

What BTS kit is this specifically?

#17110   The Shanty

Mike CT posted:

Contact Bill Wade, BTS.   He responded quickly, to any question I had about BTS kits.

Thanks I knew you built that tipple that I thought was a BTS kit. If I can't get a definite answer here I'll call Monday. I can wipe off the Rustoleum but even a toothbrush doesn't get all of it out of the mortar joints .  Don't want to put anything else on here and loose the mortar joints.

dobermann posted:

mwb posted:

What BTS kit is this specifically?

#17110   The Shanty

Ok.  I've built a few BTS kits, but have never had any problems painting any of the details or the rest of the structures other than some wacky warping of some porch posts that were made of some very porous wood.

What parts of this kit are you painting that are plastic?

mwb posted:

dobermann posted:

mwb posted:

What BTS kit is this specifically?

#17110   The Shanty

Ok.  I've built a few BTS kits, but have never had any problems painting any of the details or the rest of the structures other than some wacky warping of some porch posts that were made of some very porous wood.

What parts of this kit are you painting that are plastic?

There are 2 chimneys and maybe 16 short brick columns that support the floor. In the instructions it says to primer these with Barrier. Since Barrier is in the middle of a sentence and capitalized I would think it's a brand name and I'm not just being told to put some kind of barrier (meaning primer) between the material and Floquil which is the recommended paint. Since I couldn't determine what Barrier was I went ahead and used Rustoleum. Looks like that was a big mistake.

I scrubbed the stuff with Dawn and a toothbrush before the primer.

17110 Shanty from the BTS website.

Boy, I haven't heard that name in years. Scalecoat used to make a product called Barrier.

The stuff I had was used to protect plastic parts from Scalecoat's solvent based paints. I tried painting without it once, and wound up with crazed plastic.

It's my impression that Floquil purchased Scalecoat, and that Weaver purchased Floquil. I thought I read that somebody purchased Floquil from Weaver. Do they make solvent based paints any longer? (I didn't think so)

Check this link:  http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/270-131711

C W Burfle posted:

Boy, I haven't heard that name in years. Scalecoat used to make a product called Barrier.

The stuff I had was used to protect plastic parts from Scalecoat's solvent based paints. I tried painting without it once, and wound up with crazed plastic.

It's my impression that Floquil purchased Scalecoat, and that Weaver purchased Floquil. I thought I read that somebody purchased Floquil from Weaver. Do they make solvent based paints any longer? (I didn't think so)

 

Check this link:  http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/270-131711

 

Thanks..Lots of info about Barrier from old posts on other forums/message boards. If I can clean up the mortar joints I'll just try some Testors Model Master without primer and see what happens

Joe

C W Burfle posted:

Boy, I haven't heard that name in years. Scalecoat used to make a product called Barrier.

The stuff I had was used to protect plastic parts from Scalecoat's solvent based paints. I tried painting without it once, and wound up with crazed plastic.

It's my impression that Floquil purchased Scalecoat, and that Weaver purchased Floquil. I thought I read that somebody purchased Floquil from Weaver. Do they make solvent based paints any longer? (I didn't think so)

 

Check this link:  http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/270-131711

 

Huh?

Floquil was simply discontinued.  Testor's has all sorts of alternatives that I have yet to even look at....

Scalecoat was bought and those products are readily available from Minuteman Scale Models

http://www.minutemanscalemodels.com/

They were at the Timonium trains show yesterday with a big display

Trucolor is an alternative to Floquil and is acetone based

Solvent paints are still available......actually, water is a solvent,

dobermann posted:

There are 2 chimneys and maybe 16 short brick columns that support the floor. In the instructions it says to primer these with Barrier. Since Barrier is in the middle of a sentence and capitalized I would think it's a brand name and I'm not just being told to put some kind of barrier (meaning primer) between the material and Floquil which is the recommended paint. Since I couldn't determine what Barrier was I went ahead and used Rustoleum. Looks like that was a big mistake.

I scrubbed the stuff with Dawn and a toothbrush before the primer.

I think that those parts may be resin castings - at least they were in the BTS kits I've built.

I'll confess that reading and following instructions are not my strong point.  I probably just directly painted the brick footings with Floquil on the kits I've done and totally skipped the primer and barrier and I probably didn't bother to scrub anything.  Did not have the problem and why I've been asking all the questions.

Soap and water tends to be recommended to remove release agents - have to wonder why given that those agents tend not to be water soluble (Si based, generally).  I'd think that a quick scrub in mineral spirits would be better for cleaning off resin castings...then again, I rarely use a release agent on my castings for this very reason.

Probably worth a phone call to Bill.

Rustoleum used to be a fish oil based paint product. That's how it protects against rust. It really never dries hard.

I have to respectfully disagree with the above statement by Trainman129. Yes, although Rustoleum contains fish oil, it dries perfectly hard when using their spray cans. I've been using it for years and have never experienced any problems when painting plastic, wood, metal, and resin. Most adherence problems are due to improper cleaning. Cleaning plastic and resin removes any oils due to handling as well as release agents.  Also, acrylic craft paint will not stick to raw plastic or resin. Primer is required.

Solvent paints are still available......actually, water is a solvent,

Yes, but I think everybody knew what I meant.

C W Burfle posted:

Solvent paints are still available......actually, water is a solvent,

Yes, but I think everybody knew what I meant.

Yes.....well, I hope so,   I just like to note that about water when I get folks hand-wringing and in hysterics over solvents and let them know that the solvent responsible for more deaths than any other is..........water.  Dept. of the Navy proved water was toxic by throwing mice into water from parachute stands - impact killed the mice, therefore water is toxic.  Love the reasoning,

Yes, Rustoleum - been using it for years w/o any problems - dries like a rock and you can decal and dry transfer over it.  Flat red primer is very useful stuff,

     I don't know for sure about the product but Krylon or rustoleum makes a paint (spray bomb) that sticks to plastic porch chairs. l don't know if the chairs are made of the same material as what you are talking about? Choo Choo Kenny

mwb posted:

C W Burfle posted:

Solvent paints are still available......actually, water is a solvent,

Yes, but I think everybody knew what I meant.

Yes.....well, I hope so,   I just like to note that about water when I get folks hand-wringing and in hysterics over solvents and let them know that the solvent responsible for more deaths than any other is..........water.  Dept. of the Navy proved water was toxic by throwing mice into water from parachute stands - impact killed the mice, therefore water is toxic.  Love the reasoning,

Yes, Rustoleum - been using it for years w/o any problems - dries like a rock and you can decal and dry transfer over it.  Flay red primer is very useful stuff,

 

Never did call BTS. Cleaned the stuff as good as I could and sprayed Model Master burnt sienna and it stuck. No primer

Dobermann:

I am not sure about BTS but resin style plastics may need to be cleaned with a solvent prior to soap and water as mentioned earlier. Apparently soap and water by itself  does not take off the mold oils. I use mineral spirits but please be careful here. Try it on an inside surface first. It may take off paint. If so then go with alcohol.

Joe

dobermann posted:

Never did call BTS. Cleaned the stuff as good as I could and sprayed Model Master burnt sienna and it stuck. No primer

A problem solved is a problem solved,