Problem Loading PS3 Sound File -UPDATE 6-25-15

Try it on a short piece of test track with just a few sections.  Also, a DC power supply tends to work better for some PS/3 loads.  Finally, at MTH they have a 25 foot set of leads to the loading track, it was suggested that sometimes helps with PS/3 loads.

Of course, this could be an installation or board issue, it's not necessarily an issue with the environment.

John,

Regarding using a DC supply, does it matter which way the polarity is set (negative to the center rail, or positive)?  Also, we already are using a short length of track.

Thank you for your help.

Stuart

For PS/3, I believe it handles either polarity.  If you use a DC supply with PS/2, it does care about the polarity.

Don't forget the longer line from the TIU to the track, that's supposed to help with the loading.  I figured it it was good enough for MTH to use on their test bench, it was a good idea.

Stuart,

getting errors reading the board

There is no error message "reading the board". Please specify exactly what you are seeing.

GRJ and Barry are way ahead of me on all this stuff so listen to them first, but I had trouble with a USB to Serial cable and could never get it to work with my Rev L TIU. Found the right USB cable and it worked just fine. Loader 2.34 and a PS3 file that was an upgrade released by MTH for my engine. I suspected the computer as it was an old one with all kinds of stuff on it, figured it was a driver conflict or something?

Not sure if this is relevant, but as it turned out my USB to Serial cable was the recommended one for my Legacy system and not the one recommended in Barry's book. I couldn't figure out why I had that specific USB to Serial cable? Then one day later on, while watching a Lionel video from Mike Reagan about the Legacy system, there it was as their recommendation for use with Legacy.

Barry,

In the error message box the is the phrase "BEGIN WRITE SECTOR STATE" while the DCS Loader is "ERASING SECTOR 0 OF 33."

The lines of error code changes each time it happens, but it gets no further than sector o.

Stuart

Do you attempt to press RETRY?

If you do press RETRY, does the process get further each time that you do?

Regardless, do a track signal test using the engine on the test track. Transferring sound files requires the strongest of DCS signals.

Make sure that the track, and the engine's pickup rollers and wheels are all clean.

Hi Barry,

Yes, I have hit "retry" several times.  Each time it gets no further, with another error message following.

Stuart

Does it actually look like it is loading sector 0 and then defaults and goes back trying to load again until it attempts it 3 times and stops and gives an error message?

I have seen this twice with PS-2 3V, it usually means the firmware has issue, possibly from an aborted load where power was turned off while loading.

It maybe salvageable by MTH because they can load a sound file in the board directly with a specific piece of equipment that connects to the board.

Otherwise your stuck with a board that can't load.   G

Hi GGG,

That's seems to be exactly what keeps happening.

When I tried using DCS Loader version 2.3 I had trouble getting past the points of the system identifying that it is PS3 and the memory has 4 MB.  With version 2.3.4 it went right to the point of trying to download the sound files.

Stuart

rut ro!

This is exactly what happened to my PS2 board in my post "bad board" a few days back. It wouldn't get past the first sector.

 I think they get scrambled somehow?

 Listen to whatever these guys say. I'm just adding my own experience.

I did install PS3 into an Allegheny. I had to use a bigger boiler board.

What do you mean by a bigger boiler board?

Alan

one that handles more amps

I have seen PS 2 3 volt boards sometimes the download to the sound file in the engine aborts 3 or 4 times but i hit contiue each time and the sound file did complete sucessfully and then started up as it should when the sound file completes and the sounds start!

Works ok even though it aborted 4 or 5 times.

!

Alan 

Stuart,

At the risk of repeating myself...

John is correct on the Polarity.  I have not used AC for a very long time.  If all boards and wiring are good (correct) everything should load with no issue.  Again only is wiring and boards are good.

I would not run starter set parts into the Weaver with that big motor.  Was the customer knowledgeable enough to do the job right?  I have seen people get involved in jobs that are way above the pay grade they are stuckin.

Before I did anything, I would have an MTH tech put the boards into his PS3 test fixture to see if they are good.

I would like to hear more about a bigger boiler board.  What is the story with this?

Believe he is talking about the Relay version of the boiler board.  G

Stuart, you mentioned loader version 2.3.  The current version is 2.3.4.  IS that what you have?

I would not run starter set parts into the Weaver with that big motor.

Marty, I'm curious.  Are there variations in the components of PS3, that affect current carrying capacity of the motor circuit, or different boiler boards for the factory steam PS3?

Originally posted by Marty Fitzhenry

I would not run starter set parts into the Weaver with that big motor.  Was the customer knowledgeable enough to do the job right?  I have seen people get involved in jobs that are way above the pay grade they are stuck in.

This customer has done work on PS2 boards, but this is his first PS3 conversion.

Originally posted by RJR

Stuart, you mentioned loader version 2.3.  The current version is 2.3.4.  Is that what you have?

Yes, I updated my PC to version 2.3.4

Thanks again everyone,

Stuart

The engines with large motors use a relay boiler board.  The less than big motors use a fet board.  The tender boards are super cap boards and the less than quality engines use another board without super caps.

What he has done is not a PS3 conversion but is a PS3 transplant.  I understand what you are trying to do to help him out.  Before I invested a lot of time, I would want to know if the boards he has are good. 

That Weaver Hiawatha is a good quality locomotive and a new DCS upgrade kit would be the way to do it justice.  

Hi Marty,

The boards he used came from a new engine from a starter set.  He did a good job transplanting the tetherless drawbar to the Weaver engine.

I agree with you that using the proper upgrade kit would have been better than transplanting the PS3 boards from another engine.  It probably would also have been less expensive.

Stuart

If your setup can talk to another board, but your attempt to load sf on the PS-3 fails at sector 0, meaning it has communicated but can't load I still think it is a bad board damaged somehow during an attempted load.  By all means do a TS test on your setup to confirm.  But if TS is 10, the board needs to go back to MTH for reload.

I had an early PS-32 that did not load correctly, and over wrote a section of memory that should not have been over written.  The board will emit test sounds, even though I ultimately got it to load the SF.  Only fix is having MTH reload the board.   G

UPDATE!

This morning (Monday June 22, 2015) I tried again.

COMPONENTS USED:

Weaver Milwaukee F-7 4-6-4, wheels and rollers are clean;

MRC Trainpower 6200 transformer, set to Mode 1 (18.5 volt DC maximum output) on DC output;

12" 18 gauge stranded wire to connect transformer to TIU;

TIU with DCS version 4.3;

12" USB to RS232 cable;

36" MTH banana jack cables to connect TIU to MTH lighted lock-on;

25" of MTH RealTrax (one 5" section, two 10" sections, all connections good, track is clean).

RESULTS

Failed again.  Cannot get past error "TRANSFER_MFG_DATA_STATE" despite numerous retry attempts.

I removed the engine in question, and I checked to signal strength using two other PS3 locomotives which I know work (RailKing 4-6-0 from a starter set, and RailKing Alco RS-1).  Both showed the signal strength to be only 1 or 2.

The voltage test showed a voltage of 28 volts  (I assume that this is because the voltage test is based on AC instead of DC).

Anyway, I am at a loss as to what to try next.

Stuart

I bet that is not good enough, following Barry's advice.

R u using bulbs or filters on that TIU?

A signal strength of 1 or 2 is certainly not sufficient to load sound files, so you need to fix that first.

Buy Barry's book!!!

Stuart:  Pending fixing your layout signal, try this:  do not apply power to any TIU inouts, save one channel.  Disconnect all outputs from that channel.  Get a pair of 18-gauge or larger jumper wires with alligator clips on each end.  Turn loco over on a soft pad, witrh wheels free to turn.  Connect one lead to the loco's metal frame; connect the other to a pick up roller.  Make sure the leads, especially the latter, cannot short circuit.  Proceed with trying to load the sound file.  Barring an internal TIU problem, you should have an excellent signal.

Oh yes.  If the Weaver has a constant voltage board for lights or other items, disconnect it inside the loco before startting the upload.

The only bulb on the output side is the lighted lock-on.

Stuart,

I removed the engine in question, and I checked to signal strength using two other PS3 locomotives which I know work (RailKing 4-6-0 from a starter set, and RailKing Alco RS-1).  Both showed the signal strength to be only 1 or 2.

As I suspected when I posted previously, low DCS signal strength is your problem. Until you resolve that issue, you won't be transferring any sound files. Period.

The next thing to do is to power the TIU itself using either Fixed #1 Input or the Aux. Power port, and try a DCS signal test on the other 3 channels. If you find a good one, use it for the sound file transfer. For simplicity's sake, place the variable channels in Fixed Mode before you test them.

Regardless, is the TIU a Rev. I3a? If so, there were a run of I3a TIU's that had a defective component that caused low DCS signal strength on all channels. However, they typically had signal strength of 5-6, not 1-2.

I added a "DCS Magic Bulb" to the output of the TIU.  When I checked the signal strength to the short test track it made no difference (still only a 2 at best).

With alligator jumper leads directly to the roller and frame the signal only went up to a 3 at best.

Meanwhile, after I hooked up the TIU back to our display layout I did a signal strength test with the same engine that only showed a "2" on the test track.  It showed a signal strength on the layout between 6 and 8 using a Lionel PH-1 Powerhouse supply.

At this point I feel like giving up and telling the customer to go elsewhere.

Stuart

Personally, I think it's time to test the boards on a PS/2 test set and see if it's really a board issue or the installation.

Unfortunately I don't have this equipment.

Are you using a RevL TIU?

Before I had the test set, I used to just take the boards to a "test" locomotive on the bench that I knew functioned correctly, you can do that.  It should be that hard to pull the board and just give it a test in another chassis.

What are you calling a magic light exactly?

The correct bulb should raise the signal level.

I use a #1818 at the TIU outputs and #1873 at the track block's furthest point or terminal, as suggested by Ray M.

 There are several others that work, and Susan's filters.

Maybe there's something wrong with your TIU???

What DC power supply are you using?

You should use a short piece of track doing this and not your layout!

The TIU is at least 10 years old, but has DCS version 4.3

The bulb is 18 volt, but it has no markings on it.

As stated earlier the DC supply is an MRC Trainpower 6200, set to mode 1 (18.5 volt DC maximum).

Stuart

I'm not taking apart the customer's engine.  If anything is wrong with it I don't want to be accused of being the cause.

Stuart

If the bulb doesn't draw enough current, it won't do anything.

What really doesn't make sense is that a TIU hooked up to a 25" length of track with a lock-on, and with nothing else attached to it, only has a signal strength of 2 (at best), while the same TIU hooked up to a 12' x 8' layout with two loops of track, a spaghetti bowl of wires, with two engines, and four lighted cars, has a signal strength of 8.

Stuart