Problem Loading PS3 Sound File -UPDATE 6-25-15

Oh, and one more thing.  This very DCS/TIU set up I've used for numerous PS2 sound file downloads for years with no problems.

Stuart

You maybe onto what is wrong. If it doesn't make sense, check it out more thoroughly.

There's a weak link in there somewhere!

Stuart,

This very DCS/TIU set up I've used for numerous PS2 sound file downloads for years with no problems.

Then, obviously, something has changed or  the subject engine (board) is defective.

Until you you determine what's changed, or prove that the board is defective, you' won't have have your answer.

One thing was this, the engine worked before I tried to download the new sound file.  It sounded like the Pennsy Railking 4-6-0 that the board came from, but it did work.  Only after unsuccessfully trying to load the new sound file has the engine stopped working.

Stuart

Barry, I told him 2 factors above, to try loading apart from the layout and to look for a CV board, but he hasn't done so.

Stuart, that's because the effort to load a new file probably erased or rendered unusable the existing one.

RJR, I'VE STATED SEVERAL TIMES THAT ALL THE TIU IS HOOKED TO IS A 25 INCH LENGTH OF REALTRAX WHEN I DO SOUNDFILE DOWNLOADS! IT IS NOT HOOKED UP TO THELAYOUT WHEN I DODOWNLOADS!

ALSO, AS I HAVE STATED I AM NOT OPENING UP THE CUSTOMER'S ENGINE.  IF ANYTHING IS WRONG I DO NOT WANT HIM CLAIMING I BROKE IT.

Stuart

Well, go with the knowns. You use other engines and you state you're getting low signal.

 You changed the power to DC. I'm guessing that you had low signal even with AC. Then you stated that you get good signal with the whole layout connected.

 Somewhere you lost me. As long as you know what's happening is all that matters.

There has to be something wrong in your rig. Maybe the connection to the 25" track? Lock-on? Maybe the power source? Wire?? I can only guess.

 We're all throwing things out there so I'll bow out. You'll get good help here but you must follow someone's steps exactly.

Its' a bit of a "Hail Mary", however, try l;loading the sound file on the layout instead of the test track.

Also, I suggested that you try other TIU channels for a good DCS signal. Have you done that?

I never said to hook it up to track.  I have experienced at least one loco that refused to take a sound file when on a short piece of track, but did so when clipped.

I am trying to load a PS3 sound file (Milwaukee 4-6-4 Hiawatha) into a Weaver model that a customer installed the PS3 components from a MTH PS3 4-6-0 starter set engine.

....

I AM NOT OPENING UP THE CUSTOMER'S ENGINE.  IF ANYTHING IS WRONG I DO NOT WANT HIM CLAIMING I BROKE IT.

At this point, since you laid hands on it, as far as the customer is concerned, you broke it. So now the issue to to try to get your tail out of a sling.  I'd be suspicious of anyone who comes in, who has presumed that he/she has enough moxie to transfer a PS3, but wants me to install a new sound file, which is a heck of a lot easier.  "Nice guys finish last."

I suggest you put the loco on the track without a TIU signal.  Move the track voltage up and down and see if the headlight or other lights varies proportionately in brightness.  If not, there's a CV board and it probably is killing the signal.  I'm speaking from experience.  It is supposedly possible that the smoke unit has a CV board also.  I have an old Weaver steamer with a Seuth smoke unit and that did not affect my PS2 installation.  It also has a CV board for the headlight which does not affect PS2.

I had to comment on this.

Sometimes lighted cars hurt if they use a cap and no inductor. Maybe here, they're helping the signal???

actually it's only my opinion, FWIW it makes sense to me because the bigger the layout and wiring to the layout the more the wiring act like a bigger ANTENNA to pick up the signal from the tiu and have better signal strength!

Alan

That would be true, Alan, if the TIU transmitted a radio signal through the ether.  But from what I've read, its output is through the track.

reading the posts over the years from the top guys, looking at the DCS patents, and looking over Susan's filter design pages help me understand the signal and how to help it propagate.

 I think you're describing something closer to TMCC??, but not quite.

http://www.slsprr.net/technical/filter.htm

http://www.slsprr.net/technical/filter-design.htm

The TIU signal comes through the tracks, using them like a transmission line.  A huge layout would certainly NOT be a bonus loading the TIU channel.

Thanks for the explanation! John

If the signal comes threw the track like a transmission, why do so many people have issues with poor signal? trying to understand thee consept!

Alan

I believe a major cause is inadequate wiring, using too small a gauge.  Another would be too long a distance between hot feeds, and inadequate ground feeds.  As Frank Meguiar noted some months ago, the DCS signal is a flow of electrons, and when you try to push that flow plus the power system electrons through too small a wire, there are losses.

I do not have star wiring.  I use a single looped buss around the layout for the common ground.  Track ground does not go through my TIUs.  I have no signal problems.  I do have 14-gauge wire feeds.

Track is far from a perfect transmission line.  So, the more track and other wiring, especially branches off the main track, the worse the signal is.  The major issue with the signal is reflections back from impedance mismatches that distort the original signal.  More track, connections, etc. more reflections and poorer signal strength.  Remember, DCS measures the signal strength not by the amplitude of the actual signal, but by the percentage of packets that get through on a transmission.  If there's more distortion, less packets get through, hence lower signal strength numbers.

Star wiring and blocks with #14 & #16 OGR wire made a big difference for me, compared to all my temporary layouts before that. Haven't had an error message since, except when trying to start an engine before turning on the power to the siding.

except when trying to start an engine before turning on the power to the siding.

So you've found that to be a problem, too? 

Yes indeed I have, and it happens more often than I would like to admit to.  

UPDATE - SUCCESS!

I went and took a second TIU that we use for the party room layout.  I used the same 25" sections of Realtrax, the MRC Trainpower 6200 transfomer (for DC), and wires.

Started up the DCS Loader 2.3.4, and 13 minutes later the Milwaukee F-7 Hiawatha is alive.

The only problem that the owner will have is with the chuff rate set at 1 chuff per revolution he gets 3 chuffs per revolution of the drivers.  The smoke unit puffs in sync with the chuff sounds, the headlight and coupler work, and the rest of the sounds are perfect.

Thank you all for your help and advice with this project.  My apologies when I started to get whiny from my frustrations.

Stuart