Problem Updating MTH DCS Remote

Tom,

When the Loader app works properly, does it display a status bar with percent complete?

Yes, it does.

Have you tired updating the remote using a different TIU?

Also, since this is a DCS 2.10 remote, try resetting the remote both before and after updating its software.

Barry - same problem when using two TIUs (early TIU that was paired with the remote and a recently purchased rev L).  And, I reset the Remote.

When updating the remote, is a %-complete status bar displayed by the Loader software?

step by step instructions!

good luck

http://www.gscaletrainforum.co...430-current-version/

Tom,

When updating the remote, is a %-complete status bar displayed by the Loader software?

As I said above, yes.

Barry - thanks for your posts.  I finally was able to get the latest version of the software uploaded to the remote.  I will summarize my lessons learned and fess up to an embarrassing mistake in a subsequent post for anyone experiencing a similar problem in the future.  Tom

P R O B L E M   S O L V E D ! ! ! !

For the record,  should someone find this forum discussion in search to a solution to the problem described above:  basically, I missed an important warning made by Barry and Rayman4449.  I had the handset cord connected to the AIU INPUT rather than the REMOTE INPUT.  I was careful initially and had it set up right, but after discovering that I had a bad handset cord, I got sloppy and incorrectly plugged the new card into the wrong port.

Tom

Tom,

I had the handset cord connected to the AIU INPUT rather than the REMOTE INPUT

That may be very unfortunate.

MTH advises that plugging the remote into the AIU port rather than th Remote Input port can damage the TIU's ability to communicate with AIUs.

Barry - it is what it is.  I have an AIU and during a later phase of layout development I will know if I screwed thinks up.  Tom

Tom,

   Tom good luck, sometimes damaged, sometimes not, let us know later when you start using it.

PCRR/Dave

Tom, you overlooked the specific in-program instruction not to connect to AIU port.  Having said that, it is an easy mistake to make.

Actually, I knew about the warning from MTH (and others) and paid careful attention to plugging the Remote Handset cord into the remote port.  But, I kept swapping things back and forth between two TIUs (early and rev L) and for some reason I mistakenly convinced myself that the handset was not fit into the AIU port.  Anyway, definitely my (embarrassingly) bad.

The good news is that both TIUs recognize the AIU so it would appear that I didn't damage either TIU (I don't have any accessories connected to the AIU yet for a final check).  And, the problem with my Variable channels not receiving power mysteriously went away and now that problem is behind me too.

I can now enjoy the hobby of running trains and completing my modest  garage layout.

IMO, it was somewhat of a bonehead move by MTH to use connectors that you could screw up like that.  They did a good job on the PS/2 boards, every connector is a different pin count.  It's a shame that thinking didn't carry over to the TIU.

Yes, I know that the AIU port is actually different, but you can stuff the handset cord into it and toast the port, so it's not "different" enough!

There is a mod for the TIU to prevent damage in the case of inserting the remote tether, I can't seem to lay my hands on it.  It requires surgery inside the TIU.

Come on John.  Bone head?  You can place the 7 pin connector on the 8 pin slot of PS-2 if you don't pay attention.  You can put the 2 pin battery on the 8 pin of a PS-2 5V if your not careful, especially on the side mounted Revs.

As with any wiring, you need to double check before applying power.

Mistakes happen.  G

George, it's obvious when you're plugging those in that the connectors don't match.  The AIU and remote ports on the TIU look very similar, and it's far easier to make that mistake.  I've seen that done more than once, though I have to say, the TIU survived in those cases.

John,

I'm with George on this one.

The connectors are different and MTH issues warnings before every DCS Loader Program process where the remote has to be plugged into the TIU. Further, the warning must be acknowledged, by clicking "OK", in order to proceed.

If someone is careless and doesn't pay attention, they suffer the consequences. Such is life. Those people are the "bone heads", not MTH.

IF a 7 pin versus 8 pin exact fitting is obvious how come a 4 pin small square versus a 6 pin large square on opposite sides of the TIU are not obvious?  It is not like they are side by side?   G

It might help if they were side by side.  Then you'd see two similar places to plug, and you might think more about it.  If you only spot one, some will just assume that's the socket and plug away.  If that weren't the case, we wouldn't be talking about it, and there also wouldn't have ever been a fix specifically developed to fix the AIU port when it gets toasted by plugging a remote into it.

Your analogy with the PS/2 boards isn't really all that germane, as most end users won't be opening up the locomotive and unplugging the electronics.  I have less empathy with someone that is working something that implies a certain level of expertise and then makes an obvious connector screw up.  However, the TIU was made for end user installation and configuration, IMO the connectors should be even more "idiot proof" than the internal electronic connections.

In any case, it's clear we'll have to agree to disagree as to the wisdom of the connector choice in this case, that's fine with me.

George,

Have you ever noticed that John never admits when he's said something inappropriate or "silly"? He just treats it as his "opinion", regardless of how many people point out to him that he's off-base.

It does, however, keep his post count up there and keep him at forum member #1!

Wow Barry, I think I need to bump my post count just one more post.  I guess for some reason that silly member rating actually means something to you, I could really care less.

Your opinion is different than my opinion, yet somehow you feel that your opinion is right, and mine is wrong.  The mind boggles...

It must be really satisfying to know you're always right, at least in your mind.

You can have the last word, I'm done here.

John,

ROTFLMAO!

Ride

On

Thou

Fine

Lad

Mastering

All

Oppotunities

??????

Gentlemen,

    For you guys who work on this stuff all the time, things are easy because of your knowledge, however MTH could have set this up for the novice like Guns points out, with a completely different plug in type set up, completely eliminating any chance of mistake, making it idiot proof engineering.   My question is why didn't they make it fool proof from the beginning.  Heck I have had NASA engineers who do not read directions working for me, from time to time, it should have been made idiot proof from the beginning, this is toy train technology for the masses, fool proof it.

PCRR/Dave

Dave - I am a retired aerospace engineer and agree with your perspective.  I love what MTH has done for the hobby and I used to be an MTH dealer and advocate through my wife's store (Artisans' Depot, later  renamed to the Village Depot) until we sold it in 2001.

My mistake (plugging the Remote into the AIU port) happened after I had removed a TIU from my layout so I could get off my back under the layout and have more light.  I was very careful with the connections as I was trying to program two TIUs.  When one didn't work, I would switch to the other and even rotate the TIUs once ... got sloppy along the way. In the future, if I remove the TIU from the layout for reprogramming, I will place "painters tape" over the AIU port.  While the TIU is installed in my layout, I have a USB and handset attached to the correct ports and will attempt to reprogram while it's in place.

I would recommend to MTH that they consider:

(1) adding some error detection logic with messages or warnings (perhaps in the Loader software) would make it more fool proof for impatient types like me

(2) tweaking the design so that power cycle resets are no longer required or having the ability to do this with a button on the side of the TIU or through the remote control.  It took me awhile to discover that the USB cable provides power to the TIU.   I kept removing and reinstalling the auxiliary power thinking that I was effecting a TIU power cycle but of course it did not and the Loader software would never have found the TIU.  

BTW,

ROTFLMAO = "Rolling On The Floor Laughing My ***/Arse Off"

Tom,

messages or warnings (perhaps in the Loader software) would make it more fool proof for impatient types like me

As I pointed out in a post above, this is already in place.

Barry,

Didn't see a "post above" saying that this was already in place, but I probably missed it like the AIU port warning ROTFLMAO.  

But, to clarify my suggestion:

A warning saying "REMOTE NOT FOUND!!!!  Please ensure that (1) the remote is connected to the Remote Port and not the AIU Port and (2) that you are using a WORKING 4-wire telephone handset cable and try again" would be welcome.  The software lets the user know when it can't find a TIU.  Not sure the Loader software suggests power cycling the TIU - if not, it should.  And, it should advise for Rev L to disconnect/reconnect the USB cable to recycle power (while having the aux power cable disconnected during the upload process). 

Tom, in your earlier thread on your upgrade project, I advised you of the USB issue.

I agree that MTH should have used a different socket for the AIU.  There is a true adage:  if something can happen, eventually it will.

RJR - If I didn't thank you earlier, let me thank you now for the very helpful comment (re USB providing power) ... this broke my mental log jam allowing me to successfully update the TIU.  You and the others on this forum that help those of us with less experience is a tremendous service.  Thanks, Tom

You are welcome, Tom.  Glad to have been of help.

Don't kick yourself too hard about the AIU port.  It's a very easy mistake.

Tom,

A warning saying "REMOTE NOT FOUND!!!!  Please ensure that (1) the remote is connected to the Remote Port and not the AIU Port and (2) that you are using a WORKING 4-wire telephone handset cable and try again" would be welcome.

First of all, there is a message displayed when the remote cannot be found, as you well know.

Second, if the TIU looks for the remote and it's already been erroneously plugged into the AIU port instead, the damage may already have occurred. That's why the message is issued before the TIU attempts to look for a remote, rather than after.

The software lets the user know when it can't find a TIU.  Not sure the Loader software suggests power cycling the TIU - if not, it should.

Actually, the Loader Program does issue a message after every upgrade or backup/restore operation that states that the TIU should be power-cycled.

The only thing that isn't explicitly stated is that the computer's connection to a Rev. L TIU's USB port does, indeed, provide power for the TIU itself, and for DCS Remote and TIU software upgrades, and DCS Remote backup/restore.

Barry (DCS Ambassador?) - there was no damage to my TIU due to my mistake.

There was no message displayed that the remote could not be found as I well know as I was there.  

Could comment further, but I will leave it at that.

Tom,

There was no message displayed that the remote could not be found as I well know as I was there.  

You're correct as to the wording of the message not naming the remote, however, there are messages issued.

In one case, the Loader Program will issue a message stating that the TIU cannot be found, even though the remote is what's actually "missing".

In the other case, you get a pretty good hint when the Loader Program keeps telling you to hold in, and then release, the remote's power button. That can get old pretty quick!