Problems with MTH consolidation PS3

WE have one proto-2    2 /3 rail steam,  engine with the same problem.    I think the right side of the tender also picks up outside rail.   The only thing I can think of is... make the non-derailing insulated rail  longer, perhaps one whole track section.... not a great solution.

I have this engine .  I replaced the nylon insulator in the pilot with an aluminum one.  

Only one truck on the tender connects the wheels when in 3 rail.  The other stays isolated.  I soldered jumpers from the wheel to the axle.

Another forum member also pointed out that one of the rollers sometimes hits the grease screw when going over switches.  You can replace the metal screw with plastic or nylon.

Hope this helps.

I have the PS3 H10s Consolidation, which is very similar to your H9.

The tender should have wipers on its axles to pick up the outside rail's Common and should be connected, via its tether, to Common in the engine. However, the black screw that secures the wipers may actually be overly blackened and may be degrading this connectivity.

I suggest removing the blackening from this screw to possibly improve picking up Common on the outside rails.

Many thanks for your suggestions. I'll check them out this weekend.

Tom,

Did you ever get this figured out?  

I also have the H10 and it exhibits none of the problems that the H9 has.

Dave

Dave,

It appears that he said he'd check out our suggestions this coming weekend, so we should know something soon.

I also have the PS3 H10s and mine also works flawlessly. I run it in a lashup in front of my PS2 H3 Consolidation.

Barry,

That is why I posted that I had an H10 with none of the symptoms that the H9s have.  (others have issues with this specific engine too)

The 14th was Thursday last week.

I was just curious to see what Tom discovered.

Dave

I have an H10 that had similar issue. I am running on 2 rail track so at first I thought it had something to do with pickup. Then I realized that I didn't push the little spring arm over to the other side of the tender post when I connected the engine and tender. That fixed my problem. MTH even calls it out in the documentation that comes with the engine, but who reads that? ;-)

Sorry for my tardy reply, but last weekend was a beautiful one here in western PA and I caught up on much neglected yard work. Finally got around to some train work this morning.

My Consolidation uses copper rivets to secure the wipers to the tender body. I did check out continuity between the right-side wheels of the tender and the left-side wheels of the engine. Overall, it checks out OK. (The front axle of the rear truck doesn't provide continuity, but the other two do.) 

I also followed Jonathan's tip about the spring arm. I hadn't known about this before.

However, even after following his tip, the problem persists. The engine dies on one particular switch every time. (This is the switch where I have disabled the non-derailing feature and put a jumper across the outside rails.)

As I noted in my initial post, the engine runs fine in one direction, when the left-side drivers are on continuously grounded rail. The problem occurs when the left-side drivers are going over short rail sections of switches.

I haven't replaced the metal grease screw with nylon/plastic. This might explain why this engine causes a short when going over uncoupling tracks. What's the best place to find such screws?

Any further suggestions would be most welcome.

Tom,

My local hardware store had them.  I forget the size.  You can just temporarily remove the screw and run it to see if that is your problem.  I also forget who the forum member is who discovered this.  Maybe he will chime in.

Good luck,

Dave

Wondering if there's a way to get all  wheels common to each other even if it means rewiring the outside rail pick ups. If set to 3 rail, shouldn't    both outside rail connections (as when set for 2 rail)  be joined together?? 

Terrible set up in my opinion. I don't suppose turning  a wheel set or two   around on the tender will accomplish much? 

When set for 2 rail  how does the power get to the circuit board? do the right side drivers  pick up anything? 

Gregg,

In 2 rail mode, the brown and black wires are used.  One goes to left one goes to right.  The red(center rail) is not used.  

In 3 rail mode, the brown and black are tied together (outside rails) and the red wire (center rail ) is used.

The problem is in the fact that not ALL axle sets are used.  Some remain isolated even when in 3 rail mode.  The front pilot is one.  Usually only one truck is switched in the tender.  The other is left isolated.  This sometimes creates issues with non derailing features.  In some cases it also causes performance issues due to lack of ground.

Dave

Gregg posted:

Wondering if there's a way to get all  wheels common to each other even if it means rewiring the outside rail pick ups. If set to 3 rail, shouldn't    both outside rail connections (as when set for 2 rail)  be joined together?? 

Terrible set up in my opinion. I don't suppose turning  a wheel set or two   around on the tender will accomplish much? 

When set for 2 rail  how does the power get to the circuit board? do the right side drivers  pick up anything? 

It does for diesel where all the wiring and switch are co-located.  In steam it does for the tender, again co-located.  The engine is the limiting issue because of the limitation on wire through harness.   A pure 2 Railer can repurpose the Red center rail pickup wire to chassis ground.  For a 3 Railer you only have right side wheels coming across tether by wire.  The Left Wheel chassis ground is only via metal draw bar or spring pin for wireless drawbar.   G

Just want to make sure that I'm following this conversation with the correct understanding. Is the tender supposed to provide a ground for the engine? Thus the left driver wheels on the loco provide the ground and the right wheels on one truck of the tender? Thus as I understand it the tender is supposed to provide the ground in cases where the loco wheels don't.

Although I checked for continuity between the engine and tender grounds, this engine has behaved as if only the loco driver wheels provide the ground. For example, before I added jumpers across the outside rails, the engine often stalled. As soon as I added the jumper, it ran fine -- except over certain switches.

To repeat my earlier question, is this problem common to PS3 engines, or is it unique to the Consolidation?

Tom,

Although I checked for continuity between the engine and tender grounds, this engine has behaved as if only the loco driver wheels provide the ground.

Did you not read my earlier post on this thread, specifically post #4, where I stated:

The tender should have wipers on its axles to pick up the outside rail's Common and should be connected, via its tether, to Common in the engine. However, the black screw that secures the wipers may actually be overly blackened and may be degrading this connectivity.

Normally, can't say absolutely, one truck set of tender picks up right track or center rail, the other picks up left track (chassis ground).  The Tender switch when in 3 rail should interconnect both right and left side wheels.   Including Engine right side wheels (which comes across via tether wire).

It is engine left wheels that only connect to tender via drawbar or pin spring for wireless drawbar.  G

Tom,

On your engine, only one set of tender trucks picks up the outside rail.  The other set stays isolated even when in 3 rail mode.  I connected mine with small jumpers and performance increased.  I also removed the black coating on the wheels.  For some reason, it seemed extra heavy on this model.   

Barry's suggestion is always a good idea for most MTH engines but this one has many other small issues that add up.

Dave

Finally some success! I fooled with the wiper on the front axle of the rear truck of the tender so that it finally made an electrical connection to the wheel. This has made all the difference in the world. The engine now traverses the problem switch without hesitation. Don't ask me why the connection to this wheel should make such a big difference, but it has. I've actually run the engine around my entire mainline without stallouts. This is immensely satisfying after so much frustration.

Thanks to everyone who responded to my inquiry. It's great that so many of you offered suggestions that helped me think about this problem in a fresh way.

Barry, I didn't ignore your suggestion. At least on this particular model, the wipers are connected to the tender by two copper rivets, not a black screw.

Thanks again! 

Tom,

I'm glad it is working well!

Dave