Proof Reading Lionel 2020 Catalog

Future Headline:  TCA Member does time for selling alcohol related products to underage minor at York.

rrvics posted:

On the pages with the beer cars it says “for ages 21 & older”. However, on the page that displays the wine car, there is no statement about age. Are drinking ages different for beer and wine?

 

Nope.  Has nothing to do with proofreading.  When dealing with licensing issues, you have to follow the legal requirements stated in your license.  If you have a license with a beer company and they say you have to include the age wording, then you do it.  When dealing with a wine for which you need no license, there's no such requirement to include any legal text.

Stu

rrvics posted:

 

By the way, I like the beer and wine cars and will probably order them. I’m 70 years old. Old enough to know better.

I hope old enough to know that you should go for it!   

You might check out the MPC-era Lionel beer and liquor cars, too. There are some very interesting ones - a lot of fun to collect.

Vic,

Your son is old enough to drink beer and wine with you these days. Remember you bringing him to train shows as a youngster. I'm a grandpop these days with my daughter expecting #2 grandson soon. Time flies.

To Breezinup

Yes I do have the MPC beer and liquor cars. I always thought that the finish on MPC cars were very well done. 

To Ted

Yes my son is now old enough to drink beer and wine with me (he prefers beer). I just wish that it didn’t happen that quickly. 

It is illegal to ship items in Beer, Wine & Liquor boxes. The post office will not accept them since it is possible they have alcohol products enclosed and a minor can receive them. I'm not sure about UPS & Fed Ex.

As Not LionelLLC pointed out to me, how about a Lionel Lines Mount Clemons passenger car in the 2020 Big Book ?

Believe this has been corrected in the printed catalog, but the online photo is below.

The GN Man posted:

I believe Stu is correct.  The Chateau Martin brand of wines (from California) no longer exists. 
Here is a link to Jim Lancaster's page with abundant information regarding the Chateau Martin rail car fleet. IIRC, Atlas was doing a custom Chateau Martin reefer for O Scale West several years ago but it got cancelled.  

Interesting history behind the Chateau Martin (California) brand. Apparently Canandaigua Wine, the eventual owner, let the name drop. My guess is that there were trade name legal problems, given that Chateau Martin is a fairly well-known winemaker in the Bordeaux region of France, so the parent company of the California winery had to stop using the name. Atlas O's cancellation of a new Chateau Martin reefer may have been related to these trade name issues, and inability to get rights from the French company, but that's only speculaton.

"In 1933, after Prohibition ended, Martin Lefcourt established Lefcourt Wine Co., later Eastern Wine.
The company purchased American wines from wine-growers and blended them to make their own
brand, which they sold as Chateau Martin. The "Chateau" part was to imply a quality French wine,
while the "Martin" part came from Lefcourt's first name.

"The Chateau Martin brand was owned by Eastern Wine Corporation of New York. The winery was in Waterford, CA
on the SP Oakdale Branch and bulk wine was shipped in Chateau Martin cars from Waterford to the Bronx.
The wine was bottled in New York. In 1972 Eastern Wine Company and its famous wine label were purchased by Canandaigua Industries. On December 4, 1972, Canandaigua Industries changed its name to Canandaigua Wine Company."

ed h posted:

As Not LionelLLC pointed out to me, how about a Lionel Lines Mount Clemons passenger car in the 2020 Big Book ?

Believe this has been corrected in the printed catalog, but the online photo is below.

 

It's just like Huck Fin, several years later. (missing second "n")

-Dave

The Traditional O gauge sized Center Beam Flat Cars and Bulkhead Flat Cars are labeled as Standard O scale sized freight cars. That could have been confirmed by having the actual models on hand while assembling the catalog information.

Andrew

falconservice posted:

The Traditional O gauge sized Center Beam Flat Cars and Bulkhead Flat Cars are labeled as Standard O scale sized freight cars. That could have been confirmed by having the actual models on hand while assembling the catalog information.

Andrew

More confusing is the length of the bulkhead flatcars is listed as 2.5 inches shorter than the center beam cars, but yet the 2 cars look very similar. Looking closely at the photo of the bulkhead flatcar, can see its length is about 1 1/3 fastrack sections long, which would make the length greater than the 11 inch length listed.

What happened to Lionscale cars?

NS1975 posted:

What happened to Lionscale cars?

 

They've been so popular that production can't keep up with demand.  Once they get caught up on producing all the backorders, you can expect to see more.

Some of the clubs are to blame as the clubs are also getting special/custom run LionScale cars.

Like these Coors and Budweiser cars.

Stu

I found this passage describing the GP35  in the Lionel 2019 Big Book interesting:

"Following quickly on the heels of the GP30, EMD's GP35 quickly proved to be a much more improved and reliable locomotive than its immediate predecessor. Initially owned by dozens of locomotives around the country, through sales, mergers, rebuilds and leases, these venerable locomotives have worn over 100 different paint schemes in the past 50 years."

I did not know that locomotives could own other locomotives. 

Beer and wine are one thing for kids toys but what about cigarettes. Lionel billboard. Don

NOT LionelLLC posted:

NS1975 posted:

What happened to Lionscale cars?

 

They've been so popular that production can't keep up with demand.  Once they get caught up on producing all the backorders, you can expect to see more.

Some of the clubs are to blame as the clubs are also getting special/custom run LionScale cars.

Like these Coors and Budweiser cars.

Stu

Nice cars, mid 2020 delivery date. Does that mean the lionscale reefers from 2018 vol 1 will arrive also.

I had rocket launchers coming out the ying yang among MANY other "questionables" .

I think the ads as era history overrides any P.C. concerns.  

I loved the old beer cars as a kid; but might drink one in a year or two today and never abused alcohol (for more than "one session")

As a kid I was allowed one 4-6oz beer or wine daily if I choose it. I collected ashtry stands, cigarette holders, and tobacco pipes too, but hated smoking them.  

I avoid celebration of vice but I baulk hard at avoiding history/reality too.

I don't know if the disclaimer is law or policy. Law- if the wine is on the market I'd say that's an oops.  I don't know know it would apply if the wine were fictional, product discontinued, company O.o.B. etc.

Policy- would depend on the licence in place I think (I'm not a lawyer and shouldn't be. .... I don't spell well either, but did do ad work; proofreading "arguments" can be fun😜)

sord posted:

Future Headline:  TCA Member does time for selling alcohol related products to underage minor at York.

Yep, but first we need to get some young people to come to York.

Maybe that's the hook - "hey kids, come to York and buy beer swag".

Oh god how did we all survive. 

On the topic of proofreading, I don't think they do it at Kalmbach anymore.  Saw a headline in one of their specials - "standarg gauge".  And in a recent issue of CTT or MR (can't remember which), there was a typo in the editorial, which was on the first page of content!  Had I done stuff like that in grade school, it would have been returned for a rewrite.  With today's editing tools, there's really no excuse.

It hurts my brain so badly that I've stopped buying the CTT special issues because of this.  If I hadn't been with CTT since the first issue, I'd probably stop my subscription to it as well. 

Very sad for a company with Kalmbach's history.

I had some MPC Tobacco Road cars as a kid.  Still haven’t tried smoking yet...

Jon  

Mallard4468 posted:

On the topic of proofreading, I don't think they do it at Kalmbach anymore.  Saw a headline in one of their specials - "standarg gauge".  And in a recent issue of CTT or MR (can't remember which), there was a typo in the editorial, which was on the first page of content!  Had I done stuff like that in grade school, it would have been returned for a rewrite.  With today's editing tools, there's really no excuse.

It hurts my brain so badly that I've stopped buying the CTT special issues because of this.  If I hadn't been with CTT since the first issue, I'd probably stop my subscription to it as well. 

Very sad for a company with Kalmbach's history.

Considering how many misspellings and grammatical errors occur on this forum...

Rusty

Yes... I see Multipe every day...

Jon

Rusty Traque posted:

Mallard4468 posted:

On the topic of proofreading, I don't think they do it at Kalmbach anymore.  Saw a headline in one of their specials - "standarg gauge".  And in a recent issue of CTT or MR (can't remember which), there was a typo in the editorial, which was on the first page of content!  Had I done stuff like that in grade school, it would have been returned for a rewrite.  With today's editing tools, there's really no excuse.

It hurts my brain so badly that I've stopped buying the CTT special issues because of this.  If I hadn't been with CTT since the first issue, I'd probably stop my subscription to it as well. 

Very sad for a company with Kalmbach's history.

Considering how many misspellings and grammatical errors occur on this forum...

Rusty

Been reading older issues of Trains; by old, I mean '60s.  

The issues are much deeper than misspellings/typos ("today's editing tools" are largely responsible for the decline in editing skills--I am convinced of this causation in my profession as a teacher of writing).  Writing skill in general has declined.  Few take pride in effective, polished prose these days.

The kinds of writing we do most often are partly to blame.  The surrender to the word processor is partly to blame (who ever thought it was a good idea to put computer geeks in charge of usage?).  The abandonment of writing instruction in favor of other sorts of subjects at the formative levels is partly to blame.  But perhaps most of all, the indifference of the audience is largely to blame.  If the reader is indifferent to the quality of the prose--and, being ignorant of good prose, most readers are--why should the writer care about its quality?

One facet of the issue is context.  On the forum here, the writing more closely approximates conversation than publication.  No one speaks Standard Written English (hence the name), and so few take especial care with their posts.  The technical term is register, which refers to level of formality.  Typos here are generally a product of apathy to one degree or another.  But the magazines are a different story.  They are in the context of professional print; the "sin" in their pages is therefore the greater.

And so back to those mags:  those guys could write.  Even the letters to the editor were polished compared to what we see in feature writing these days.  Sophisticated syntax, elaborate and correct use of punctuation to effect meaning*, and precise diction all contribute to the quality.  Oh, does the diction of much feature writing today grate on my ears!  Misused or inaccurate jargon--difficult to credit in a specialized publication--and endless repetition of the same few words reflects both a tin ear and a (probably correct) sense that the writer knows the reader is weakly literate.

Now, there are good writers even these days.  I will offer Rich Melvin as one (hardly the only!) example just on this forum.  He sometimes relies overmuch on special effects (fonts, emoticons), but his prose is concise, precise, and forceful.  In general, the prose in OGR  is better than that in CTT these days, but David P. Morgan's are rare and endangered everywhere.  Few want good prose anymore, and fewer still recognize it.

*Yes, I wrote "correct use of punctuation to effect meaning":  I use effect in its verb sense, meaning to accomplish or create, not in its noun sense of outcome, and I don't mean affect in its sense of to influence or change.

Rusty Traque posted:

Considering how many misspellings and grammatical errors occur on this forum...

Rusty

The difference being is that folks posting here, and elsewhere on the internet, are not being paid to write information intended for formal publication.  You are talking apples & oranges. 

RadioRon posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

Considering how many misspellings and grammatical errors occur on this forum...

Rusty

The difference being is that folks posting here, and elsewhere on the internet, are not being paid to write information intended for formal publication.  You are talking apples & oranges. 

Still, it's no excuse.  I've made my share, but I also go back and correct spelling errors or grammar issues when I notice them.  I usually notice the issues right after I hit "post reply."

Rusty

True, quality conortl has really gone downhill.  

rattler21 posted:

Gene H posted:

It is illegal to ship items in Beer, Wine & Liquor boxes. The post office will not accept them since it is possible they have alcohol products enclosed and a minor can receive them. I'm not sure about UPS & Fed Ex.

Gene,  Postal officials have told me boxes which show original use as alcohol and tobacco cartons are not accepted because of a greater risk of internal theft.  When empty, I paint over the original advertising on alcohol and tobacco cartons and they become acceptable at our local post offices.  John in Lansing, ILL

That's it!  All we have to do is paint over the beer and wine boxcars and they can then be used for enjoyment by the whole family!  LOL.

rrvics posted:

To Breezinup

Yes I do have the MPC beer and liquor cars. I always thought that the finish on MPC cars were very well done. 

I generally don't like the build quality of MPC, but I have all 16 of the Liquor cars, and a couple beer cars too. Great colors and graphics, the best of MPC, IMHO.

These make a great long train.