Proto 1 Question

Monycrr,

Battery can't be good.   When you shut off the power to the engine, how long do the sounds stay on? If not for at least 20 seconds, the Battery is not good.

1st suggestion: get new MTH battery, or replace with a BCR, or make your own "PowerCell"( look in the Electrical section of the forum on How-To make your own.)

Bill K

I just picked up a P1 and I was warned not to power it until I had a new battery or a BCR as it could damage the boards. Leave it be til you get the new battery!

After I got the battery it was installed and I let it charge overnight before I ran it.

It's been fine since.

Good Luck!!

1st of all, replace the battery, if it hasn't been run in over 3 years, the battery is bad, no matter how well it tests on a meter.  As soon as you put a load on it it'll drop voltage like a rock.  I'm speaking from experience with my Dreyfuss Hudson. 

Now, if you don't want to wait for the battery, you can use a brand new 9V battery, but just remember, don't use it for more than a week or two at the most.  This is a good idea to try to make sure the locomotive is okay.  To test with a new 9V battery in it, place it on the track and bring the voltage up to 8 volts.  It should ding twice and start playing the startup sounds.  After 5 seconds you can push the direction button and it should start going forward.  Make sure not to exceed 10 volts until after it is moving.  The whistle and bell buttons won't work until after it is moving.  If this is not the case, please post exactly what it does do, or a video of what it is doing.

I don't know where you are located, but I do MTH repairs. I am located in east central PA, if you would be willing to ship the loco, I would be willing to check it out and repair it. My email is in my profile.

MonyCRR,

    I tell everybody who is purchasing or getting a P1 out of storage after a long time, to 1st install a BCR, then put the Engine on the tracks and let the BCR charge up for at least 3 minutes, before trying to operate the P1 engine.   It saves a lot of grief, in the long run.

PCRR/Dave

Power it up to around 12 volts for about 10 seconds. Then reduce power to about 9 volts and hit direction button. It should go.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I appreciate it.

Tried a new battery fully charged. Same problems. It won't move. Even after resetting back to factory settings. Anything else I could try?

What happens when you first apply power, Do you get 2 dings? indicating the engine is in reset? Lower the track voltage until the engine is almost dead and then try the dir button. Take your  time . What Transformer are you using?? Got an old Lionel one kicking around? try it.

Using a MRC Transformer. Runs my other engines just fine. When starting up I get 2 dings. When I hit direction, the sounds stop and engine doesn't move.  Seems there has to be a way to get it to move. Just can't figure out how.

 Early Proto-1 was designed to run on a pure sine wave transformer  such as an Old lionel KW ,1033 ZW etc. I'm not sure whether the MRC fits that category or not.  What engine is it?  How old is it?   There was a software change around 96 or 97 to allow  for more modern transformers..

My proto 2 engine runs fine with the MRC. The Hudson used too as well.

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

Used reset 40 for lockout. Wham!! She sped down the tracks. Thanks to all for your input.

Spoke too soon. It's back not running again. I guess the electronic board is messed up. Wonder if replacement boards are still available?

 Sounds to me like it still may be a battery problem ... Can you try it with a new battery or even a new  9 volt alkaline for testing.... Don't leave it in the engine.   

Model # helps to determine age of this unit.  Early PS-1 behave differently in some way from later one 1997 to 2000.

First beside new battery which you did, the harness needs to be checked.  Many times the connector is damaged or terminals corroded.  This could be intermittent.

Pure sine wave is better.

If engine starts up with 2 dings and then plays chuff sounds, turn track voltage off.  If it play shutdown sounds for 10secs the battery circuit is good.  Otherwise see above.

To come out of reset after startup the track voltage needs to be less than 10V.  With track voltage less than 10 press direction button.

If sounds and everything else seems fine, just not motion, you could have a broken wire in the tether, or the terminal at the engine has a bad solder joint.  Very common on PS-1.  The 2 outside terminals are the motor, while 2 in the middle are AC power.   G

Have you taken the original battery out? That needs to be your first step as everyone has said.

GGG posted:

Model # helps to determine age of this unit.  Early PS-1 behave differently in some way from later one 1997 to 2000.

First beside new battery which you did, the harness needs to be checked.  Many times the connector is damaged or terminals corroded.  This could be intermittent.

Pure sine wave is better.

If engine starts up with 2 dings and then plays chuff sounds, turn track voltage off.  If it play shutdown sounds for 10secs the battery circuit is good.  Otherwise see above.

To come out of reset after startup the track voltage needs to be less than 10V.  With track voltage less than 10 press direction button.

If sounds and everything else seems fine, just not motion, you could have a broken wire in the tether, or the terminal at the engine has a bad solder joint.  Very common on PS-1.  The 2 outside terminals are the motor, while 2 in the middle are AC power.   G

Your suspicions were correct. When I figited with the tether plug the engine started moving. There is a definite short there. Now I know what is wrong and I can fix it. Thanks so much for the insight. Paul.

I had this same problem, open the locomotive and drop a.few fresh beads of solder on the wires on top of the socket. This will or should solve your problem.

keep us posted on your status .  I just put a BCR in 1 of 2 engines with proto 1  ! seems ok so far .  wednesday or thurs  I will get another BCR for the other engine .  

WRGMILW posted:

keep us posted on your status .  I just put a BCR in 1 of 2 engines with proto 1  ! seems ok so far .  wednesday or thurs  I will get another BCR for the other engine .  

 

Will do. I have a replacement tether coming. We'll see if that doesn't fix the problem.

Replaced the tether. Didn't solve the problem. The connection to the motor is still shorting out.

I took off the shell off the chassis. I saw circuit board the on the engine with the pins soldered on. One pin connection sparks at the solder joint whenever I put the engine into forward. Is this the problem?  I see no other loose connections nor bad solder joints. Any suggestions?

Can You get a  picture up??  Most proto-1 steamers have a 4 pin tether between the engine to tender,... Is   the pin you mentioned on the engine side?  If so which pin? 

The picture shows the board. The 1st pin on the left is the one sparking.

Is there any chance the board is touching the chassis , Maybe put a layer of electrical tape under the board. Look s  like  red is hot from the rollers.. white and yellow to the motor  Does the board short out if  not screwed down?.

I can't remember where the ground goes on the board.,  it' ll be on one of the pins back to the tender.

  Will the motor run with a 9 volt alkaline attached directly to the motor... ma y be  you can jury rig something up.

Check out the motor  connections right  at the motor.... They can't touch the motor casing,

After trying Gregg's suggestions, take your soldering iron, and touch the offending pin, close to where the tether plugs into. Sometimes the solder joints break and affect continuity. 

Had this same issue with a MTH scale Hudson.  Found the issue by running the engine with the shell off in the dark.  Could see the sparking clearly.  A quick touch with a soldering pencil fixed it right up.

Rolland

Cold solder joint.  The 2 outside pins are for the motor and tend to break first.  As Luke stated, reflow solder and add some.   G

Problem Solved!!!

Put a new bead of solder over the 4th pin that was sparking.

Runs clean and smooth, like new.

Thanks to all the great advice!!  Much appreciated!!