Proto-Sound 3.0 vs True Blast

I would go with the new Railing. You will get so much more than just a horn and whistle/bell. 

No contest, the RailKing w/PS3 is the best performance and value. 

If sound is important then its MTH no contest. If a used Williams will do, keep looking. There are dozens on the auction sites now for much less.

Pete

Thanks guys!

And the PS3 requires NO battery, besides having GREAT sounds!

Tinplate Art posted:

And the PS3 requires NO battery, besides having GREAT sounds!

That's good to know.  I recently purchased a PS1 unit from PensyDave.  Please tell me about this BRC? I've been reading about that replaces a battery.

No contest. As far as sounds i’d Go with the Railking. 

Ponz: I have been dealing with this BCR thing and Marty recommends replace the White PS1 battery with the green MTH battery Part Number BG-4000005 half the price and from what I have been reading on the post I have made the PS1 system is not very friendly in using the BCR according to some folks the BCR can create a voltage surge and will smoke check/fry the PS1 board. I would reach out to Marty and talk to him about the BCR's and early PS1 and PS2 boards.

RJT posted:

Ponz: I have been dealing with this BCR thing and Marty recommends replace the White PS1 battery with the green MTH battery Part Number BG-4000005 half the price and from what I have been reading on the post I have made the PS1 system is not very friendly in using the BCR according to some folks the BCR can create a voltage surge and will smoke check/fry the PS1 board. I would reach out to Marty and talk to him about the BCR's and early PS1 and PS2 boards.

Thanks Rick - Much appreciated.

Ponz

RJT posted:

Ponz: I have been dealing with this BCR thing and Marty recommends replace the White PS1 battery with the green MTH battery Part Number BG-4000005 half the price and from what I have been reading on the post I have made the PS1 system is not very friendly in using the BCR according to some folks the BCR can create a voltage surge and will smoke check/fry the PS1 board. I would reach out to Marty and talk to him about the BCR's and early PS1 and PS2 boards.

What does a BCR have to do with the price of coffee? What does a BCR have to do with the Ps3 electronics? Answer to both.... NOTHING! Ps3 has the BCR circuitry built in so anyone with a PS3 electronics in their loco doesn't need to worry about a battery or waisting your time and money about a BCR.

Also note.. the Williams "True Blast" was a horn, Bell, Diesel roar sound, and some similar cab chatter throughout the true blast board production. A GG1 is an electric locomotive that should have loud fan sounds and NOT a diesel roar sound. The winner of the three is clearly the Railking loco because with Ps3 electronics, you also get an automatic cruise control that works even in  onventional mode besides the sounds. And that is worth the few extra dollars from the choices the O.P. has given.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

RJT posted:

Ponz: I have been dealing with this BCR thing and Marty recommends replace the White PS1 battery with the green MTH battery Part Number BG-4000005 half the price and from what I have been reading on the post I have made the PS1 system is not very friendly in using the BCR according to some folks the BCR can create a voltage surge and will smoke check/fry the PS1 board. I would reach out to Marty and talk to him about the BCR's and early PS1 and PS2 boards.

What does a BCR have to do with the price of coffee? What does a BCR have to do with the Ps3 electronics? Answer to both.... NOTHING! Ps3 has the BCR circuitry built in so anyone with a PS3 electronics in their loco doesn't need to worry about a battery or waisting your time and money about a BCR.

Also note.. the Williams "True Blast" was a horn, Bell, Diesel roar sound, and some similar cab chatter throughout the true blast board production. A GG1 is an electric locomotive that should have loud fan sounds and NOT a diesel roar sound. The winner of the three is clearly the Railking loco because with Ps3 electronics, you also get an automatic cruise control that works even in  onventional mode besides the sounds. And that is worth the few extra dollars from the choices the O.P. has given.

I asked about the BCR because I have one PS1 Steal Locomotive.

I didn't know that a PS3 engine has cruise control.  I can't wait to see how that works with my old ZW.

Ponz 

RJT posted:

... from what I have been reading ... the PS1 system is not very friendly in using the BCR. According to some folks the BCR can create a voltage surge and will smoke check/fry the PS1 board. I would reach out to Marty and talk to him about the BCR's and early PS1 and PS2 boards.

I installed BCRs in my numerous PS1 and PS2 locomotives many years ago. I've never had any kind of a problem with the locomotives or the BCRs. They are the same type of electronic system that MTH now builds into PS3 models. Unlike a battery, I have no concerns about starting a locomotive that has a BCR even after it has been unused for months or years.

MELGAR

MELGAR posted:

RJT posted:

... from what I have been reading ... the PS1 system is not very friendly in using the BCR. According to some folks the BCR can create a voltage surge and will smoke check/fry the PS1 board. I would reach out to Marty and talk to him about the BCR's and early PS1 and PS2 boards.

I installed BCRs in my numerous PS1 and PS2 locomotives many years ago. I've never had any kind of a problem with the locomotives or the BCRs. They are the same type of electronic system that MTH now builds into PS3 models. Unlike a battery, I have no concerns about starting a locomotive that has a BCR even after it has been unused for months or years.

MELGAR

Good to know!

Rick,

from what I have been reading on the post I have made the PS1 system is not very friendly in using the BCR according to some folks the BCR can create a voltage surge and will smoke check/fry the PS1 board. I

That's true for early 5 volt PS2 engines. BCRs are fine for PS1 engines.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

from what I have been reading ... the PS1 system is not very friendly in using the BCR. According to some folks the BCR can create a voltage surge and will smoke check/fry the PS1 board. I

That's true for early 5 volt PS2 engines. BCRs are fine for PS1 engines.

I have never experienced this problem with any of my (PS1 or) PS2 locomotives, some of which are 5 volts.

MELGAR

Folks: I stand corrected I was confusing the PS1 boards with the early PS2 boards as Barry so nicely stated and he has been a tremendous in helping me sort out the discomfort factor I had due to the long storage of all of my locomotives, along with Marty.

I have never experienced this problem with any of my (PS1 or) PS2 locomotives, some of which are 5 volts.

Hopefully, you will never experience this at all.  

It's not all PS2 5 volt engines by any means. It's only some 5 volt boards that have a weak component and the problem has, mostly, been reported with early 8.4 volt BCRs. Regardless, the potential exists for a BCR to cause damage to a 5 volt PS2 board. I've been advised of this by two friends that are among the most-knowledgeable of these types of subjects. You'd instantly recognize their names.

I'm in the process fo converting all of my 3 volt PS2 engines to home-made supercapacitors, 33 down and 24 to go. I have yet to decide what to do about my 31 5 volt PS2 engines, although I plan to convert some of the best of the 5 volt engines to PS2 3 volt boards. The choices for the remainder are, as I see them:

• Leave them alone until a battery won't take a charge, then replace the battery with a NiMH rechargeable battery.
• Leave them alone until a battery won't take a charge, then replace the battery with a Lithium Ion rechargeable battery. I've had one in a 5 volt steamer for the better part of a year with no issues whatsoever and excellent charge retention.
• Take a chance and use store-bought, new BCRs. Essentially, "roll the dice" and find out the hard way if any of my 5 volt PS2 boards are prone to failure.

At the risk of hijacking this thread, which I believe is pretty much played out, I invite anyone with ideas or knowledge who can assist me in this issue, to respond.

Thanks!

The battery-less capacitance storage circuitry is the best thing to come along since sectional track! (LOL!) It should be noted that LGB had such a system in their #414 RhB crocodile back in 2000, and it powered their analog-activated digital sound system. The croc had a delay circuit where the relays and switch sounds preceeded the cooling fans sound while the engine was standing still, and after the voltage was increased, the traction motor sounds and side rod "slop" would kick in as the engine moved. The whistle would also sound. Subsequent whistle sounds were activated via a reed switch and track magnet. After the track power was shut off, the vacuum brake pump and relays would be heard and then the "whoosh" of the air release. All very crisp sounds!

One option to minimize the possible damage from a BCR to the old electronics is to minimize the surge.  The Cantherm MF72-022D7 is one such device.  It's rated at 600ma steady state in operation, more sufficient for the BCR task.  However, it presents a much lighter 22 ohm load at startup until the timeout, the thermal time constant for this device is 27 seconds.  Once it's fully warmed up, it presents a resistance of 1.1 ohms.

GRJ: Interesting and inexpensive fix! :-)

Oh boy.....I better bookmark this thread somehow.

John,

Where's it go, across the BCR's terminals?

No, the inrush limiter goes in series with one of the leads, it goes from high resistance and slowly reduces to it's specified terminal low resistance.  The inrush limiter is really like a PTC in reverse, the PTC goes from low resistance to high resistance.

Another cool feature with the PS3 Railking is directionally controlled operating pantographs.  No contest....it's MTH.

Bruce

John,

the inrush limiter goes in series with one of the leads

Exactly where, please?

Barry, it goes anywhere in series with the battery.  It can go in either lead, it doesn't matter.  Note that I haven't tried this, but in theory it should solve the issue of the inrush damaging the charging circuit. 

In thinking about the circuit, I think I'd probably add a Schottky diode to allow instant access to the power when drawing from the battery.  The circuit would look something like this.

The SuperCAP is the BCR or your home-rolled version of it.  The diode allows immediate current draw from the supercap, but inhibits the current flow into the battery, that has to go through the inrush inhibitor.  I'm pretty sure this would do the trick and eliminate any sudden shock to the charging circuits of the PS/2 board.  The same idea works for the 3V boards if you're worried about the BCR with those.

Boy - memories of that small circle around the Christmas tree are quickly fading.

Ponz

It's just a bigger circle, same kind of deal.

John,

I think I'd probably add a Schottky diode to allow instant access to the power when drawing from the battery. 

Could you please provide as Digi-Key reference for the preferred diode?

Thanks!

Here's a suitable part.  SMC 11DQ03TR Schottky Diode, for the inrush limiter, I'd try the Cantherm MF72-022D7 that I mentioned previously.  If that happens to charge too slowly, you can step up to a higher rating, but the object of the exercise is to limit the startup surge, so I'd try this one first. 

The only operational difference with this "fix" will be a slightly longer startup charging time.

John,

Thanks very much!

OK Guys,

The RailKing is on the way.  The PS1 engine I recently received has a brand new GREEN recently installed, so I'll agonize over a BCR or whatever at a later date.

Many thanks - Ponz

The RailKing was defective.  That pantos were not working properly.

Hey!  which would have more pulling power, the RailKing or the Williams?  I notices that the RailKing struggled a little pulling 7 PC cars.

Ponz

The GN Man posted:

No contest, the RailKing w/PS3 is the best performance and value. 

Which would have more pulling power, the RailKing or the Williams?  I noticed that the RailKing struggled a little pulling 7 PC cars.

Ponz posted:

The GN Man posted:

No contest, the RailKing w/PS3 is the best performance and value. 

Which would have more pulling power, the RailKing or the Williams?  I noticed that the RailKing struggled a little pulling 7 PC cars.

If you are talking about two semi scale GG1s they should, in theory, pull about the same but my Williams traditional GG1 easily pulls 8 70' Williams passenger cars and I suspect could handle at least 10. 

Pete

Hard to imagine either of them having an issue with seven cars.  The weight of the locomotive would be a prime characteristic for pulling power as both are dual-motored.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Hard to imagine either of them having an issue with seven cars.  The weight of the locomotive would be a prime characteristic for pulling power as both are dual-motored.

When I say struggled, I should clarify by saying it took all of 14.5 volts to achieve medium speed around a level oval.

I will defer to the DCS experts but if this has PS2 and you are running conventional it will draw much more current if cruise is turned on. I believe there is way to turn cruise off for conventional running but can't help with how. Maybe in your owners manual?

Pete