Protosound Issues/Help

I'd suggest you work a little harder at doing the reset.  If it's moving, it's not one of the classic issues with device selection.  Try a reset 18 and see if you can get it's mind right.

What transformer are you using?

 

Mort

Lets go back to the beginning...

 

We need to know what transformer you're using and whether you get 2 dings when power is first applied to the track.

 

Maybe we can help gettting to  feature 18 or 27, Seems the engine  runs???  neutral/ forward/ neutral/ reverse etc.

First, thanks for the replies.  I just got home from work, and while on the way home, I called Wayne at J&W Electronics.  As I mentioned, this had a BCR in it, so apparently Wayne serviced the engine when my father was around.  I'm using a Z4000 transformer, about 4 days new now.  Up to this point, I was only familiar with the IR remotes that come in the ready to run sets.  Wayne walked me up to reset 18.  I let him hear the engine as it sat still, and also while running.  Not being familiar with the Commodore Vanderbilt, he explained that what I thought was "chugging" was actually the blow by valve firing over and over.  It eventually calmed down after the reset and when sitting still went through what I guess is a cycle of sounds, with an occassional blow by valve firing.  Sounds like crap to be honest.  This must have been one of the first protosound models because I've also got a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha that has PS2, and what a difference.  Wayne seems to think there may still be an issue with the board though because after he listened, he said the sounds still sound garbled.  When running, there really is no sound whatsover, just a whining almost.  Runs smooth as anything though, so I'm debating sending up there so he can look at it, or keep it the way it is.  I'm originally from that area anyway and am up there biweekly to assist my mother.  Retired US Navy here.

 

Anyway, if there are any more opinions, send them along.  I'm still learning, and this beast of a transformer is going to take some time to learn everything and work it the way its intended.

 

Thanks again, I'm standing by if there is any other thoughts.

 

Joe

Forgot to mention, firing the PSA's on this, if there are any isn't happening.  With the PS2 engines I've got, doing the ol' bell/whistle/whistle is all it takes.  I don't have a manual for the Commodore Vanderbilt and trying to find one without a model # seems next to impossible.  No luck reaching MTH either, tried that today at lunch.  I'm gonna keep digging, I'm sure there's one out there.

As gunrunnerjohn pointed out, reset 18 retores the engine to factory defaults, Feature 27 sets up the chuff rate but is fairly complicated, try 18 first. I don't have a Z-4000 but surely someone can walk you through it.

Found what I believe to be the manual, but I've got no way to tell other than by appearance.  I can't find a part # on tender or loco.   I believe I triggered the PSA's correctly, but still nothing but the engine noise and occassional squealing and other misc. noises when in neutral.  No announcements at all.  If I'm reading correctly, the original protosounds option is similar to the PS2 options, but the chip was made by another company, correct?   I know entering the PSA phase is totally different, but it doesn't seem to want to play on this loco. 

First I would go with what Marty said. He's done a ton of these. Second the 9v you put in was it a rechable 9v? If it was just a regular one you can't leave it in. It could do damge.

 

Ralph

I only put the regular 9v in there when I was trying to figure it out on my own (like a dummy).  I've now got the J&W BCR in there that they installed when it was last serviced.  Years ago mind you.

Anybody want a Commodore Vanderbilt?

 

Just kidding, but I can see why there was a PS2 released, then a PS3....good lord, i'm wiggin out running back and forth to the basement to keep trying...Thanks for all the help guys, I'm gonna make this thing talk yet.

Take the computer to the basement.

Come on now, that makes about as much sense as reading the manual on this z4000 prior to operating it...no fun there

Perhaps the Z4000 is the problem. Some early ProtoSound-1 systems can't identify that transformer. Locomotives may run but the sounds are off, including chuffing. Do you have (or have access) to a postwar Lionel transformer (1033, TW, KW, ZW)? If so, wire it to your layout or to a short stretch of track and see how your loco performs. Turn the power up to 10 volts and let the loco sit (in Reset) for 1 minute. Then use the DIRECTION control or turn the power off and on to get the loco running.

 

ProtoSound-1 steam locomotives have a bunch of sounds in Neutral that reproduce sounds of a real steamer just sitting there. But they sound strange to anyone not familiar with them. There are no sounds in Reset other than startup sounds and then clinks and clanks that count off Reset states.

 

At least your COMMODORE VANDERBILT runs.

 

Another helpful site is www.the-scaled-tin-rail.com. That is the QSIndustries ProtoSound site. Go there and look around.

Just read your post about PSA (Passenger Station Anouncements). They don't play as part of the sequence of sounds in Neutral.

 

When a loco is running, press the Bell button down for 3 seconds. An air brake release (pfft) will sound (a whistle or a horn on later systems). Release the Bell button. Reduce power to stop the train at a station. Turn power off, then on again to about 8 volts. The loco will be in Neutral and PSA will begin with an arrival announcement. Wait 20 or 30 seconds. Press the Direction button and release it. That would ordinarily put a loco in Reverse, but in PFA it won't move and the next series of sounds will begin. Press and release the Direction button again. Returning to Neutral, a departure announcement will play as well as sounds of passengers boarding. Finally, press the Direction button once more. Turn the voltage up a bit so the loco gets enough juice to start the train slowly. A  conductor will call, "All ABOARD!" The whistle/horn will blow twice. The bell will ring. If there is enough "juice," the loco will start the train. Increase voltage until the train is running smoothly. When the bell stops, the loco runs normally.

It is worth reading the instructions on the reset.  Once you do the reset you need to cycle power to lock the reset in.  Also as Reading stated, the engine is sensitive to voltage at startup.  Follow his instructions for activating the PFA.

 

MTH is not too far from you, if you wanted them to look at it as a walk in. 

 

You can rotate the volume pot  to see if that improves the sound quality.  G 

Thanks guys, I'm going to try the PSA sequence again this evening.  For the sounds, I'm not looking for a perfect representation of a real loco with this one, but they really are horrible, at least to my untrained ear.  I keep referring to the PS2 engines I have, but there is no comparison with the sound.  I guess as time went on and the protosound program evolved, they got better, but I'm half tempted to just turn the sound all the way down to avoid the noise.  As far as getting to MTH, I would love to.  I wasn't aware that you could actually do a walk in for service.  I've tried to call them but no luck so far.

 

For ReadingFan,  I do have one post war Lionel transformer.  The model exactly, I don't know, but it has the orange directional lever on the left and the black throttle lever on the right.  I tried to hook it up but I doubt I'm doing it correctly.  The 4 posts on the top of the xformer are U - C from left to right.  The connection diagram looks like it has me wiring to "U", then selecting either A, B, or C for the other wire.  But I am not educated in this at all.  This was a transformer from when my father was a kid, but there are no manuals, and of course Dad's not here anymore. It looks practically new, and I do remember him having it overhauled a while back.  I'll give it another shot tonight as well.  Maybe it will help out with this current issue.

The one lionel transformer I do have.....but no manuals.  Any help there is appreciated as well.  This isn't an acutal pic of mine, but its the same type.

That transformer can work, but it only has the whistle button.  U to center rail and A to outer rail.  Your sound problems can be from a bad speaker, bad capacitor, or the volume pot.  Sounds should be relatively clear, but this is 1990-1997 technology.  I have also seen volume destorted via excess lead length and splicing of the BCR connection.  All depends on how it was modified.  Can you post a picture or better a video with sound.  I may be fine, other than activating the PFA.  I am a repair tech in SE VA if you interested in having it examined.  G

I'll do my best to get a video or sound clip this evening.  I should have thought of that earlier.  Thanks.

I just had a chance to look at the specific model.  Yours is a 1998 and the MTH Z-4000 is a compatible transformer.

 

I would try the reset manually with the handle.  After start up raise voltage to 16-18.  Lower handle to about 11V and raise rather quickly.  You should here the first clink. Repeat it again until you get to step 18.  3 clanks and 3 clinks.  After a while you will get the feel.  Then press the bell button until you get the warbled sound and then clear.  Then lower voltage to zero and back up to about 8-9V and the train should move out.  Don't hold voltage at 0 for more than 2-3 secs.  This should ensure PFA is activated.

 

With the train running at 9-12 volts press and hold the bell button for at least 5 secs.  You should hear the activation sound.  Release the bell button and let the train run and then press and release direction button, the train should stop and then after a few seconds the bell will stop and the voices start.  Let them play for 5 seconds or more and then press the direction button again, continue through the cycles until train departs. 

 

If this doesn't work go to reset position 28 and activate the PFA.  It is possible PFA is deactivated and reset doesn't reactivate it.  Have seen this on the chuff control.  G

I haven't done the reset 28 yet, but will try it this evening.  I've done reset 18 about 5 times already, and with the Z4000, I just cycle up to 18 and let it do it on its own.  Pretty amazing feature, and it cycles through the power faster than I could raise/lower the throttle.  As far as getting the announcements started, I honestly believe I did all that is required to entire the first sequence.  When running, I do the bell for 3 seconds, enter neutral, it comes to a stop....I get the earlier mentioned 20-30 seconds of what I thought was chugging (only to learn it was a supposed blow by valve), then about 10 seconds of misc. noises that I have no idea what they are....on to another series of valve firings, then wash, rinse and repeat....then a few rear end pucker type sounds at random intervals that come blasting out at the most inopportune time, sounds that if this were a 1:1 Loco, would send everyone within a 500 foot radius into heart failure.  I'm about 2 feet from the thing and I my ticker still skips a beat or two when those loud sounds occur.  But still, no PSA type noise.  Take it from neutral to forward, no noise at all.   One thing I did fail to mention was that there is no puffing of smoke, its pumping out continuously throughout the trip around, and when in neutral a steady stream is flowing. 

I don't think puffing smoke was available until PS2.  If all efforts to get it working right fail, consider upgrading it to PS2.  I also seem to recall that the PS1 unit was made by QSI, and eventually there was litigation between it & MTH.