Protosounds 1 issues

 

The original poster mentions he's "new to MTH locomotives" and so may not know that "BRC" is a typo  

 

"BCR" (Battery Component Replacement) by J&W Electronics is a capacitor-based power cell that replaces the stock MTH NiCd. It requires that you leave your locomotive in neutral for about a minute at the beginning of your operating session, then the BCR retains its charge until you're done for the day. 

 

The upshot is the capacitor doesn't develop the "memory effect" that NiCd batteries are notorious for, and therefore isn't subject to its output suddenly collapsing while the Protosounds 1 (PS1) electronics is saving its setting during its shutdown sequence.

 

The only downside is the user might forget the initial charge cycle and possibly letting a retrofitted unit go into shutdown before the capacitor has enough charge to "see it through".

 

If the locomotive is frequently used, a NiMH battery (8.4v) could stand in for the 9V cell, or if not so frequently, a new NiCd will allow you to "kick the can down the road" a few more years. Before investing any money, you can test for proper operation with a fresh 9V alkaline battery (but don't leave it in there long-term as alkaline cells don't like being recharged, which PS1 tries to do anytime its operating)

 

---PCJ

If you have the manual, read it carefully.  If not you can find it here: http://mthtrains.com/sites/def...ction/20st15270i.pdf

(This is not the book for your engine but Protosound 1 is Protosound 1 and the instructions are the same.)

Then after you put in a new, well charged battery or BCR do a reset to default.  It could be locked in forward. It should start up in neutral, which is actually reset on first startup.  A small but important distinction. 

 

Best of luck with your new engine.   

When you start the engine up does it immediately move or just go to forward after the first direction change?  If the latter, your engine may be locked in forward.  When you start it up and it is running shut off transformer.  Does the engine play shutdown sounds?

 

If so follow your directions that tell you how to do a Feature 18 reset.  If not, post exactly what engine is doing and what sounds it makes when you first turn it on.  G

If your engine is stuck in forward then I believe the previous owner locked it in that phase. To turn it off, power it up and as it is moving blow the horn or whistle and keep you finger on it as you power the throttle down. Once the engine has stopped wait a moment until you hear the bell ding one time and then power up the throttle again, it should be in neutral now and you can then return to operating it by the directional button. After this make sure you have a good battery so you won't hear the 3 clangs of death. That can be fixed too but better a new battery then to buy a reset kit that's getting hard to come by now.

 

Okay one other thought, are you using an MRC transformer.

 

Okay that's another issue too, the lionel cw has also been a transformer with issues as to using with proto sounds ( QSI )
Do you have access to a transformer with pure sine wave? Like a zw, kw or some other post war transformer? There was a thread on here awhile back about that transformer and proto one. Also a Z4000 will work too. With the early QSI boards they had trouble cycling the reverse unit in them. Usually they will just sit there and idle without being able to cycle the reverse unit with the directional button. It sounds like its been locked in forward but the electronics in a cw and most MRC transforners won't allow you to cycle it.

The BCR in a Proto1 locomotive actually makes it behave about like a Proto3 locomotive in the respect it needs about a minute to power up the capacitor before it's ready to go to work.

The CW80 is incompatible with Proto-1. That may or may not be your only problem, but you will only find out by trying your engine with a compatible transformer. As Trucktrain suggests, old Lionel transformers will work fine. MTH has a list posted online of what transformers are compatible with Proto-1. 

I agree to reset the engine with a different transformer. The CW-80 will operate a proto-1 but you have to use a lighted car or install a lighted lockon or a bulb depending on the track you use. The CW-80 does not drop to zero volts with out it to change directions.

 

A weak battery will also cause it to change programing when trying to change directions.

You can use a fresh 9V Alkaline to resolve this and once it is running correctly switch back to a good rechargeable or a BCR.

 

Let us know what the results are with a new transformer.  G

Is this the locomotive you have?

 

 

http://mthtrains.com/sites/def...ction/30st18953i.pdf

The CW-80 runs PS1 locomotives just fine.  I have 7 PS1 locomotives and have no issues.  Sounds like the locomotive is locked in forward.  To get it out without hurting the board, you need a fresh battery.  I know because I tried it once with a weak battery and hosed the engine.  I had to buy a new chip to fix it.  You said you have a 9V battery in it now.  Is it a brand new one?  If so, Get the locomotive running and hold down the horn button.  While holding it down, turn the track power off but keep the horn pushed.  Right after the power to the track is off, let go of the horn button.  In a couple seconds you should hear a bell sound.  Once you hear it you can turn the power back on the locomotive should be in neutral.  Once in neutral turn the power back off and leave it off for a minute.  Now when you repower the locomotive, it will be in reset and you can get to reset #18.  When going thru reset options, you don't need to turn the throttle all the way off, but if you do it doesn't hurt if you have a fresh or good fully charged battery.  You can go fast or slow with the throttle movements too.  I say turn yours all the way up and then slowly bring it down until you hear a air sound then turn it back up and keep doing it, sounding the air sounds.  Once you have counted 18 times, turn the power back up and leave it up.  You should hear 3 clanks and 2 clinks.  Now push the horn button and you should get a garbled bell sound.  Now turn the power off and then back on and the locomotive will go forward.  It is now running as it would new out of the box.

I have found PS1 locomotives to be great runners and wouldn't trade them for anything.

While I understand that some people have experienced that their CW transformer works on their proto 1 (QSI) engine, What they don't realize is that the early QSI boards were not designed to work with an electronic transformer. Most to nearly all the boards used up to 1998 were meant to be run with a lionel transformer.(look at what the instruction manual tells you about this engine30-1125-1 cataloged 1997 vol. 1 and the transformers that will work with it.) This was the early stages of MTH. If many remember when MTH came out with the RTR 1998 sets they had a Z750 with the red LED light in the controller. That was the transformer with the nasty voltage spike. To cure that QSI offered the spike guard for that. Up to date now. To determine the difference in the improved controller they changed the LED light to green. No more nasty voltage spike that damaged the boards. The 1998 QSI boards will work with any electronic transformer including MRC. The lionel CW is closely related to the MRC because they don't deliver pure sine wave. With this being said I hope this gentleman can get to a friend or LHS to test it on a postwar transformer or a Z4000. A Z500, Z750 and Z1000 will not work either, they too don't deliver pure sine wave.

 

I would like to thank everyone for their input and help.  It was locked in the forward position.  I was able to get it out of it finally after attaching a caboose to it.  I performed a feature 18 reset and it is working like a charm.  I don't know what I would have done without all of your help, this site is very beneficial.  Hopefully, I can become well versed enough to provide assistance to others in the future.  

 

Eventually, I will upgrade this locomotive a new version of protosounds and add fan driven smoke unit to it to bring it up to current standards. 

The default setting is for a transformer that does not have a separate Horn Bell button. You can change the setting to make the bell work with the bell button and the horn button controlling the horn.

 

If it has a smoke unit I believe it would be fan driven with a on/off switch inside the cab.

I bought an 1994 MTH Premier Southern Ps-4 (20-3006-1; cab # 1401) from a Forumite just before the York Meet in October last year. It ran with my postwar ZW but not with newer transformers. I had anticipated that. After a series of emails, MTH Parts brought a circuit board from a 1997 RailKing Ps-4 (30-1125-1) to the York Meet. Wayne Renga of J and W Electronics (BCR manufacturer) installed it. Now my Ps-4 runs well with newer transformers, and I gained Passenger Station Announcements (PSA).

 

I'll suggest that as an option.

 

Although the description at the MTH Website claims that my Ps-4 has a fan-driven smoke unit, mine has a Seuthe unit. I asked about installing an MTH smoke unit. I was told that I would have to remove some metal inside the smokebox casting and drill a hole for the screw that secures the unit down into the cylinder saddle. MTH did that on later production runs.

 

Thanks to this Forum, I purchased this Ps-4 (the only 3-rail model of # 1401 in the Smithsonian), received it in perfect condition, and had it upgraded within two weeks. GREAT group of people, these Forumites!

I just had an early Empire State Express Hudson, after replacing the tether board, it would power up, but not move. I was using a Z1000 transformer, which usually gives no trouble. I switched to my Z4000, and the loco powered up and moved when I cycled the throttle. A postwar or Z4000 transformer is worth a try, plus if it is really stuck in forward, you can do a reset 27, with the loco moving at a slow speed.