PRR E44 redux UPDATE FINAL

Very nice!

Keep us posted Chris!

That should keep you busy for a bit,

Those motors look like Pittman 8000’s, most likely due to space constraints of the E44 otherwise I’m sure Bill would have used the 9000 series as he did in the GG1 and FF2 of which I have several versions.  I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the Pittman motors in my models were ball-bearing equipped and assume yours are too, pretty forward thinking for that era.   My Uncle was an engineer for the PRR and while the GG1 was his favorite, he once told me that the E44’s were very reliable motors but that during the winter months, the cab heater wasn’t worth a hoot.   Looking forward to seeing more brick pics.

I think he said they came with open frame.  I knew Bill, but never owned a complete Wolfer anything.

I used to use 9000s, always with ball bearings, but now exclusively use rare earth bb 8000s - in everything right up through giant cab forwards.

@bob2 posted:

I think he said they came with open frame.  I knew Bill, but never owned a complete Wolfer anything.

I used to use 9000s, always with ball bearings, but now exclusively use rare earth bb 8000s - in everything right up through giant cab forwards.

I started a new thread about Bill Wolfer so as to avoid thread-drift here.  Please contribute if you’re so inclined.  

Not sure I understand why you singled out my post.  Was I incorrect in assuming that this thread was about the Wolfer E44?

the small open frame motor in the second photo is the original. the cans are what I installed.

compared to a GG1, the E44 body is far narrower. was a challenge to find the right Pittman for the job.

@bob2 posted:

Not sure I understand why you singled out my post.  Was I incorrect in assuming that this thread was about the Wolfer E44?

No offense intended and this is about a Wolfer E44 upgrade.  Since you knew Bill, I thought it would be interesting and appropriate to start a new thread about him out of respect to the op.  

@PRR Man posted:

the small open frame motor in the second photo is the original. the cans are what I installed.

compared to a GG1, the E44 body is far narrower. was a challenge to find the right Pittman for the job.

Do you happen to know where those plastic (Delrin?) chains can be purchased?

Either P&D Hobby Shop or Stock Drive Components-Sterling Instruments.

Considering all the negative comments out there about 2 motor drive setups (as in China drives) as opposed to single motor horizontal drives, how did these perform? I've never heard/seen anyone comment on the Wolfer drive. Obviously it was done to improve running. I guess the question is, why were two motors better back then and not now, and are you staying with the two motor drive to stay true to the original spirit of the loco?

I remember seeing Ed Duddy (very nice man) with them over at York. Any idea if anyone took over the line after Ed passed?

Not a well known fact, but Ed was the guy behind ME code 148 flex. The earlier pieces were stamped "House of Duddy" on the plastic ties.

I don't recall CB doing these locos....was the body done by Alco?

Looking forward to more on your project.

Simon

Not sure why, but one of OP's photos shows up as "Image Not Found" on my screen.  From later discussion, I think it's the one that shows the old open-frame motor.

Chuck

Simon, I cannot speak to why Bill Wolfer used a twin motor-in-truck design. The E44 is a long engine with a narrow body. Getting a single horizontal drive and towers in the body probably would not work. I suppose a single drop-down tower and 'tank drive' shafts could have worked. I have no idea.

As can be seen in the photo above, I only changed motors, not the driveline.

I would like to know of a reliable source for those BB Pittman 8000 series motors referenced above. Thanks.

Bob

Pittman used to sell them - I would buy 30 at a time.  They were half the price of hobby stores.  As I understand it, if it is a standard motor, in stock, they will sell onesies and twosies.  Nice folks.

Charlie Pittman was a trolley nut - O Scale.

@PRR Man posted:

Simon, I cannot speak to why Bill Wolfer used a twin motor-in-truck design. The E44 is a long engine with a narrow body. Getting a single horizontal drive and towers in the body probably would not work. I suppose a single drop-down tower and 'tank drive' shafts could have worked. I have no idea.

As can be seen in the photo above, I only changed motors, not the driveline.

I believe post CB, Ed Duddy (House of Duddy) picked these up along with the EL-C/EF-4/E-33, he would offer them both as kits and assembled; this Duddy built example sports a single can in the car body driving CLW towers. For me the knock against the older Wolfer Chain drive is the fiber axle gears would get brittle and break teeth.

A late colleague of ours, Eddie Chamber's did some of the painting for Ed on these, as I recall he used the Champ Blue Ribbon sets for the E-44's, the lettering and heralds both are unique to the E-44 size and color-wise, so I get why you want to have them custom printed. As an aside, according to Eddie the Virginian scheme was the most popular on the E-33 in terms of orders.

Some day I shall finish my Penn-Erie E44 - aluminum cast, homemade trucks, two 8434 motors, six CLW gearboxes.  Somebody even gave me a pair of Faively pantographs.

I put the engine's driveline together in the body along with a NCE decoder and tested the setup on my test track last night.

Here's a quick and dirty phone video of it running on rollers. Sound gets very amplified from rollers, the hollow body (without the bottom piece), the hard wall surface and wood rack above. The engine is not that noisy.

I went to the Cherry Valley club today to run it around the layout. Teaser: I'm very pleased. Videos to come!

Nice!!!!!

I went to the club, Cherry Valley, today to run the engine around the club layout and test it's pulling power.

Wowee! I had no idea the engine would perform so well. I had a coal train in the yard, it's regular power units in the shop for upgrades. I attached the E44 to it and I was surprised with its pulling. The club has a 2.8% ruling grade of 30+ feet. Plus a 12' diameter helix of similar grade. It handled them with aplomb.

When I went looking for Pittman can motors, I needed smaller cases. The new motors happen to be 24V. The layout is between 17v-18v. It appears at the reduced voltage the engine is in a higher torque band compared to top voltage in a 12V motor. An aspect that seems to contribute to drawbar pull.

Another video:

I admire the hard work you guys do to create a 2 rail engine. I watched these E44s every day going back and forth to school. I have three of the E44s in three rail, they are not perfect but good enough for me. 

Nice.    So they are vertical motors with worm gear meshing gear on center axle, and then chain drives from center axle to other two?  

@atlpete posted:

I believe post CB, Ed Duddy (House of Duddy) picked these up along with the EL-C/EF-4/E-33, he would offer them both as kits and assembled; this Duddy built example sports a single can in the car body driving CLW towers. For me the knock against the older Wolfer Chain drive is the fiber axle gears would get brittle and break teeth.

A late colleague of ours, Eddie Chamber's did some of the painting for Ed on these, as I recall he used the Champ Blue Ribbon sets for the E-44's, the lettering and heralds both are unique to the E-44 size and color-wise, so I get why you want to have them custom printed. As an aside, according to Eddie the Virginian scheme was the most popular on the E-33 in terms of orders.

 

 

Pete,     There is a picture of Bill Wolfer and Ed Duddy shaking hands to mark the sale of Bill's stuff to "House of Duddy" in an old issue of  the late "O Scale News". As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I remember seeing Ed at the TCA York meet and he had ALL the stuff he had gotten from Bill there, and a cast  Aluminum shell GG1, which I think was an Alexander. Guessing the Bill had sold all of his Custom Brass GG1's before the transaction. 

Love to be able to go back and speak with Ed knowing what I know now, as  I was just starting out in O back then.

Simon

Jim, yes that's the driveline setup.

here's another video:

Dear Chris,

Great work !!!

It is fitting that one of Bill Wolfer's locos be run on the Cherry Valley as Bill was a member of the club.

John

Adding to the pile, here is the E44 that I have; I believe that it is a Locomotive Workshop cast aluminum body and has an All Nation drive:

Note the different road number on the one cab side!

After the running test, the engine was disassembled. The power trucks set aside for fine tuning and eventual repainting.

Turning attention to the body, I reassembled a Favely pantograph, fix soldered a number of handrail sections and a few other details. Then final prep for prime paint.

Stay tuned.

Nice and even! Primed with that grey Rustoleum in the background or did you shoot it on with an air brush and if so what did you use? Also what's your prep for the surface? (I use a two stage "dish wash" with Dawn and "pickle" with vinegar)

I think I like E44s.  Very nice.  Any chance of a closeup of the Wolfer trucks?

Yes. It’s automotive primer. A bit finer grained that run of the mill primer. The chemistry is more suitable too.

After stripping the old paint, it left the surface with plenty of tooth In the brass  for painting. A couple washes with soap and air dry.

I’ll post a few pix of the trucks later for Bob

Some pix of the trucks. Haven’t cleaned them of the old grease yet.

Chris

Nice work,  and I am enjoying reading about your project. Keep the posts coming!

John

Sorry I'm late to this thread.  I also cannot see your first picture, it says "Image not found."

Yes, my experience agrees that 24V motors usually perform better than their 12V counterparts, especially if the drive isn't geared super-low.  The reasons are complicated, but you're definitely not imagining it.

I'm guessing that you transferred the worm gears from the original open-frame motors to the new ones.  This could be tricky- one could easily damage the worm or bend the new motor shaft trying to press it on.  Any tips?

Great job, thanks for sharing!

The missing image of the bare body is shown further down in the thread.

I reused the original worms and had Joe Foerhkolb drill them out for me. His equipment is a bit more accurate than mine. They are a slight friction fit and held fast with Loctite. After I got them back I needed to drop the worm down the shaft a bit. This was accomplished by applying some heat to loosen the Loctite. Once it cooled it held fast.

I meant to post this weeks ago, but....

I finished the E44 project, done on spec for a fellow club member. He is very happy with it.

The decals were printed by Mt. Vernon Shops. Their art is HO scale. John Franz was very accommodating to enlarge a set for me. They are very accurate with even tiny lettering for electrical cabinets.

One neat feature of this body is the number boards are illuminated from the lower headlight. No need for additional lights. They also operate correctly by direction.

As with most twin motored vertical drives, a motor is visible in the cab. I created a color printed sleeve of an actual E44 control stand (both sides) to cover the intruding motor, and add a bit of realism to the cab.

(Yes, I need to clean up the window frame trim a bit.)

Next up: a video of it in action.

@PRR Man posted:

How about a few closeup pics of that awesome catenary? How is the horizontal bar joined to the vertical uprights? Is that made from plastruct? Again  awesome!