IF a company produces PRR steamers that traditional were used strictly for freight service shouldn't they put a round blue number board on the front of the steam chest? I don't recall anyone doing that they just seem to use a red keystone number board.
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Round blue??? 
Most PRR freight boiler front number plates were round and BLACK with raised buff numbers and a raised buff circle around the outside. Some classes built or acquired after 1930 did have red keystone number plates: M1a and M1b 4-8-2's, HH1 (ex-N&W Y-3) 2-8-8-2's, J1 and J1a 2-10-4's, Q1 4-6-4-4 and Q2 4-4-6-4.
IF a company produces PRR steamers that traditional were used strictly for freight service shouldn't they put a round blue number board on the front of the steam chest? I don't recall anyone doing that they just seem to use a red keystone number board.
1) "round blue number board"???
2) "on the front of the steam chest"???
3) MTH offered the PRR "L" class 2-8-2 and it had the prototypically correct ROUND number plate on the front of the smokebox door. Sunset/3rd Rail is currently working on a VERY accurate SCALE PRR "L" class 2-8-2, which will also have the CORRECT round front number plate.
The earlier K4 Pacifics & E6 Atlantics were delivered with the round number boards but later changed to the Keystone. Not sure if the 100 K4s built in 1927 were delivered with Keystones, also the G5 -4-6-0s maybe someone could answer. I would like to see a scale K4 #1737 as delivered in 1914 with round number board & low side tender in O Scale. Maybe next year for the 100th anniversary of the K4.
I would like to see a scale K4 #1737 as delivered in 1914 with round number board & low side tender in O Scale. Maybe next year for the 100th anniversary of the K4.
That model would also include several detail differences from currently tooled K4 models. Among these are a manual reverse lever above a straight running board on the engineer's side instead of a running board that steps up above a power reverse mechanism, oil headlight instead of electric, no generator, extended piston rod housings and a bell cord (no air ringer originally).
"round blue number board"???
Where did the "blue" come from.
Models available, my collection.
Sunset Thirdrail E6 (Keystone)
Weaver L1s (Round)
Weaver G5 (Keystone)
Lionel K4 (Keystone)
Weaver H10 closest to the TT (Keystone)
Sunset Thirdrail decapod. Right in picture (Round)
Weaver M1a (Keystone)
K-Line B6 and Weaver C1 both with (Black round circles). ??? Dark Blue???
Weaver A5 (Round)
The "Standard Railroad of America" wasn't very standard!
"round blue number board"???
Where did the "blue" come from.
Several years ago I bid on a round PRR number board at a Maurer auction and the numbers were painted over with yellow paint along with the rim but the field of the board was painted blue.
Just so you know all genuine PRR number boards have gold leaf on the raised rim. Most of the time the gold leaf was painted over.
Thanks for the clarification. NOw I understand why on both questions.
"round blue number board"???
Where did the "blue" come from.
Several years ago I bid on a round PRR number board at a Maurer auction and the numbers were painted over with yellow paint along with the rim but the field of the board was painted blue.
Just so you know all genuine PRR number boards have gold leaf on the raised rim. Most of the time the gold leaf was painted over.
1) The REAL PRR round and/or Keystone front number plates, are NOT boards (as in WOOD) but were/are cast METAL (brass/bronze?) plates.
2) Just because you found/purchased one at an auction that had the background, or "field" painted blue does NOT automatically mean that the PRR EVER painted the background blue during the service days of steam.
2) Just because you found/purchased one at an auction that had the background, or "field" painted blue does NOT automatically mean that the PRR EVER painted the background blue during the service days of steam.
A blue/yellow PRR numberplate would really need some provenance.
I would suspect the original owner didn't like poor old gold on black, or it was so grungy and decided to make it "purty..." Sounds like a little restoration is in order.
Rusty
Nice looking fleet of PRR steamers.
I suspect that 1737 will not be built for the ready- to- run crowd, because it is quite different and obscure. I plan to convert a Scale Craft to that configuration, but cannot bear to orphan the running board casting.
In addition to the K-Line B6, which Mike CT showed to have a black number plate, K-Line also placed black number plates on their PRR scale Mikado and A5 switcher. The number plates have buff numbers and a buff circle around the outside, as described by Bob, earlier.
"round blue number board"???
Where did the "blue" come from.
Several years ago I bid on a round PRR number board at a Maurer auction and the numbers were painted over with yellow paint along with the rim but the field of the board was painted blue.
Just so you know all genuine PRR number boards have gold leaf on the raised rim. Most of the time the gold leaf was painted over.
1) The REAL PRR round and/or Keystone front number plates, are NOT boards (as in WOOD) but were/are cast METAL (brass/bronze?) plates.
2) Just because you found/purchased one at an auction that had the background, or "field" painted blue does NOT automatically mean that the PRR EVER painted the background blue during the service days of steam.
I put in an absentee bid of $1500 but lost.
2) Just because you found/purchased one at an auction that had the background, or "field" painted blue does NOT automatically mean that the PRR EVER painted the background blue during the service days of steam.
A blue/yellow PRR numberplate would really need some provenance.
I would suspect the original owner didn't like poor old gold on black, or it was so grungy and decided to make it "purty..." Sounds like a little restoration is in order.
Rusty
I checked the provenance with a reliable source prior to bidding and he confirmed it as genuine but never mentioned the blue paint. He also told me about the gold leaf and under some of the chipped yellow paint I could see the gold leaf.
There was another number board in the same auction but it was a PRR Keystone with the proper red paint. I bid on that one as well but it went for a little over $4000.
I'm not sure where the importers got the notion that the round plates were other than black. As shown in some of Mike CT's photos above, Williams used a dark tuscan red on their B6sb 0-6-0 and L1s 2-8-2 models as did Weaver on their L1s, A5s 0-4-0 and H10s 2-8-0 models. All of these were built by Samhongsa so it might have been the factory's decision. Sunset/3rd Rail used red on their I1s decapods but changed to black for the H6sb 2-8-0 and N1s 2-10-2.
Fortunately, all of the Williams, Weaver and 3rd Rail number plates are etched brass with raised numerals and circular border. You can paint the entire plate black, then use some 600 grit emery paper to gently clean the paint off the numerals and border. The exposed brass is a reasonable representation of the buff color on the prototype.
I'm not sure where the importers got the notion that the round plates were other than black. As shown in some of Mike CT's photos above, Williams used a dark tuscan red on their B6sb 0-6-0 and L1s 2-8-2 models as did Weaver on their L1s, A5s 0-4-0 and H10s 2-8-0 models. All of these were built by Samhongsa so it might have been the factory's decision. Sunset/3rd Rail used red on their I1s decapods but changed to black for the H6sb 2-8-0 and N1s 2-10-2.
Fortunately, all of the Williams, Weaver and 3rd Rail number plates are etched brass with raised numerals and circular border. You can paint the entire plate black, then use some 600 grit emery paper to gently clean the paint off the numerals and border. The exposed brass is a reasonable representation of the buff color on the prototype.
Yes, I saw that too and thought it very odd. Not prototypical.
By and large, locomotives in passenger service got the red keystones. Freight engines got the round black number plates. The M1a/b was a dual service locomotive and thus received the red keystone. Some of them also got passenger-style whistles.
George
Looking thru Don Balls book Pennsylvania it has a photo of PRSL E6 #6096 taken in Camden sporting a round black plate. Was this common on PRR Locomotives letterd for the PRSL? I also have a vague memory from when I was about 4 or 5 in 1957 or 58 somewhere in the Philadelphia area right on the side of the highway, my dad took to see a long line of PRR steamers probably in a dead line awating there date with the scrappers torch. I do remember him pointing out the Pennsylvania Keystone but as far as what they were I don't know since I was too youung to tell the difference between a K4 & L1 etc.
As Bob mentioned, each manufacturer did things a little different. Here are what my PRR engines have:
-Round, black number plate: Weaver C1, MTH Premier Decapod, K-Line B6/A5, and 3rd Rail N1.
-Round, red number plate: Weaver Consolidation, MTH RK Consolidation
-Keystone, red number plate: MTH Premier Q2/M1/G5, Lionel Y3/T1/J1/K4.
-No number plate on front: Williams K4 Streamlined, Weaver Torpedo
Interesting that both Weaver and MTH put red number plates on their Consolidations. I checked the web and all the pictures I found of these engines showed a black plate except one. This pictured showed #7555 in the yard with a round, red plate. So, I guess a round, red plate is prototypical (assuming you trust the web).
Ron
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