PRR Silverliners and Metroliners

I am interested in both of these models. The rounded windows on the Silverliner I's were just a nice touch to what was otherwise a pretty plain looking train. The Metroliners remain a class until themselves and while not quite the success they were intended to be, they can still be found sans motors and electrical equipment in push pull service.

I would definitely be interested if MTH or Lionel came out with a Silverliner set in PRR,Penn Central and reading and it would be even better if they came out with a Metroliner set in PRR,Penn Central and Amtrak. I know MTH was scheduled to do the Metroliner set in PRR and Amtrak but did not do it due to not enough pre orders. I think it is time for one of the companies to do those sets.

I'd put my hat in the ring for the Silverliners!!

AF

I would love to get PRR Silverliners and Metroliners. The Silverliners could also be done for SEPTA, but I'm not sure SEPTA would grant a license to do so.

I'd also like to get:

Amtrak E60


SEPTA Subway/Elevated sets


SEPTA Kawasaki double or single-end LRV
SEPTA Brill Bullet cars

Penn Central, Amtrak Metroliners
Rail Diesel Cars (RDC) sets (any and all roads)

Don't forget that Silverliners can be done for Conrail, too! Conrail had control of the suburban lines until they were transferred to SEPTA.

Fred

Did Conrail ever put their logo or name on the Silverliners? I remember riding on one of the Silverliner I cars a few years ago that still had "Pennsylvania" above the windows.

I can't speak for the Silverliners, but the CR logo or name never appeared on the NJT similar Arrow cars. They lost their PC logo and simply kept the NJT DOT arrow on the one end of the car. The same was true for all commuter passenger cars in the state.

Williams produced the Metroliner about 10 years ago. I believe that they released PRR, PC, and Amtrak versions. The PRR briefly ran them before the merger.



I remember there being some discussion questioning whether they were ever painted in PRR colors. I don't know if they were scale length.

Jan

Jan,
though they were some Metroliner units with PRR keystones on them, they were the test units. When they finally went into service they were wearing PC.

the Williams version were less than scale length.

Chris,

I knew they were not scale length, but if the rest of their dimensions are scale then you could cut and splice them. I expect that they are 72' instead of 80' to 84', There was a review in CTT in 2001. I have that issue in a box ... somewhere.

Jan

quote:

Did Conrail ever put their logo or name on the Silverliners?

Yes, they did. A Conrail blue square about 2x2 with a white logo and the word CONRAIL set below one of the windows on the cab end. If there was something on the sides, I don't remember. As it is, they were only there for a relative short time before they were conveyed to SEPTA.

Fred

So whatever happened to the group that was going to have a CAD guy do all of these in kit form and RTR form?

that group would be us... the Cherry Valley Model RR Club. if enough people want it, we'll see about having it produced.

someone tell me to start a thread asking for commitments and we'll see who ponys up... with a deposit.

I think we need at least 50 cars, but I'll ask Drew who is leading the project.

quote:

Originally posted by PRR Man:
So whatever happened to the group that was going to have a CAD guy do all of these in kit form and RTR form?

that group would be us... the Cherry Valley Model RR Club. if enough people want it, we'll see about having it produced.

someone tell me to start a thread asking for commitments and we'll see who ponys up... with a deposit.

I think we need at least 50 cars, but I'll ask Drew who is leading the project.

Start the thread, and please be specific about exactly what you are offering.

Namely RTR or kit, including all parts , both for 2 rail scale and 3 rail hi-rail. Without exact information, it will be difficult to get anyone, including myself to advance funds.

Are you going for both Silverliners and Metroliners, or just one or the other?

As I posted in the beginning of this thread, OK Engines probably could provide a scale body for either set of cars.

As a disclaimer I have no stock or options in OK Engines. They simply make a prototypically accurate shell. DO NOT buy anything except the shell if you are going to produce either model.

I am not trying to be negative, just pointing out the need to be very specific. It resolves problems before they occur.

Oh for a spell checker on the Forum.

I can tell you the project was specific for a phase 1 SILVERLINER only as a resin kit. Some club members were interested in getting them and the way to make it feasible was to offer it to others.

If I recall correctly the builder had already done them in HO and was willing to scale up for O scale.

Like before, I'll talk to Drew and he can take the lead if the project is still feasible.

This was for Pioneer I-II-III/Silverliner II Budd-built cars only. No St. Louis cars, no Metroliners here. (Although if these do well, i might consider putting together an order for those later.)

As i recall from my discussions with the builder, the minimum order needed to make the run happen was about 10 cars, at $250 each for a shell and some other parts. This price does NOT currently include the mechanism or assembly, although that might be somewhat negotiable for a slightly higher price.

--Drew

Now, was I seeing things? I did see some silver EMU cars in Philly with a blank for a door in the middle of the car? But I did see pics of them on Jersey units? WAs in the alternate world of FRINGE?

quote:

Originally posted by DominicMazoch:
Now, was I seeing things? I did see some silver EMU cars in Philly with a blank for a door in the middle of the car? But I did see pics of them on Jersey units? WAs in the alternate world of FRINGE?

The Philly cars with the blanked-out center door are the Silverliner IV cars. The Jersey cars are the Arrow I-II-III-IV cars, and do have the center doors installed. (None of which I have any interest in seeing produced as models at this time.)

--Drew

Does anyone have access to blueprints for Metroliners?

If yes how do I obtain a copy?

Thank you in advance for your help.

The closest thing I've seen to Metroliner information for the modeler is in the information in a book I have published on Behalf of the Budd Corp. circa 1981 and in the surprisingly accurate Bachmann HO Metroliners of the early 70's. The original release of those were center drive, 8 wheel drive powered units with metal sprung Faively pantographs that look and operate like the prototype.

Having said that, I'm sure information is available from what remains of Budd or at the State Archives in Pennsylvania. The only intact Metroliner is at the PA state museum and it's a rare cafe car at that. It never got Amtrak paint and sits outside in its original PRR / PC red stripe surrounding the windows.

Joe Acri is probably the researcher to hire in PA if you want to obtain all the available documentation.

Thanks

Do you have a copy of the book that was published in approx 1981?

If I can obtain plans, I can have shells made with accurate window and door placement.

How do I get hold of Joe Acri?

The book I was referring to is the "Illustrated Treasury of Budd Railway Passenger Cars: 1931-1981".

Not as many diagrams on the Metroliners, but a wealth of photos of all things Budd and lots of great builder's photos of a majority of the Budd products. A must have for any fan of passenger cars.

I need to dig out Joe Acri's contact. He did research for me on the GG1 project and is thoroughly fluent in finding information in both the state archives of PA as well as some good connections to the PRRT&HS society.

His fees are not cheap, but certainly reasonably for the quality of product. Again, I'll need to do a little digging on contact info. It's been nearly two years.

If you are willing to use the Williams extrusions. I knoww of a source for scale length versions of blank ones. If you are interested I can put you in contact with teh owner. My e-mail is culliton.bill6@gmail.com

Bill

I did contact your source a while back and am still wating for a reply to a concrete proposal. Do not know if he's forgotten or what.

I did not mean to imply any hasseling or cheating. The guy who made me an offer was not trying to hassle or cheat. The American way is to go into business with others. It's just that the train business, at least on obscure things, is a difficult business to clearly see a profit. Mike Wolf is an exception, not the rule.

Very often these folks with very special parts either forget where the current pile of letters is. or get the piles of correspondence hidden under some other project. I know I always tell folks I promise stuff to to call me again if they do not get a package within, say, three weeks. I have a way of forgetting . . .

Eric Lundgren has posted elsewhere photos of the Division Point RDC. I have never seen such quality in an obscure model, and if they can do that for an RDC, perhaps it could be done for the Metroliners?

Doea nyone know if the Latest Lionel Cab car has the same Width as the MTH Metroliner cars? I am considering a kitbash. IF not the Lionel version, How about the Williams Metroliners?

quote:

Does anyone know if the Latest Lionel Cab car has the same Width as the MTH Metroliner cars? I am considering a kitbash. IF not the Lionel version, How about the Williams Metroliners?

The Lionel Amfleet cars are "slimmer" than the MTH cars and look a little strange together. I've got the MTH versions and my son has the HHP-8 set. This was one of the first things I looked at when he got his set after they were released.

The Williams versions are "fatter" than the MTH cars because they are extruded aluminum and are more like traditional 15" extruded aluminum passenger cars.

All three manufacturers have used a different "scale" when making their Amfleet cars. Makes mixing and matching brands rather difficult.

I would like to see MTH offer "rubber" retrofit kits for their Amfleet car windows. The Lionel ones are superior in this regard.

Fred

I know Williams made Metroliners, non scale, did MTH or Lionel also make Metroliners?

A few years back MTH cataloged Premier Metroliners. They were canceled. This was the only MTH item that I was interested in that ever got canceled!

So guys email MTH of your wishes maybe they will revive their plans.

Ron

I don't believe the MTH planned Metroliners were going to be scale, but rather 18" scale cars. Metroliners were 85' long and served as the basic platform that Budd developed the Amcan I fleet off of.

A true scale set would be most desirable.

Did receive contact and apparently have a deal for body and ends for Metroliner.

Would it be possible to purchase just a pair of A ends?

--Drew

When I get this done and receive parts, I will post pictures and see where we go from there.

Long winded way of saying I don't know but we shall see.

Parts arrived





Shell is scale length, non engineer end is plastic and very nice. The operator end is rough and has too many windows and doors are not correct.



Remember when I started this topic I said my plate was full and needed someone else to do work. Whatever.

Do need help, if I remember correctly, someone probably WBB has a power truck for many engines including Metroliners. Does anyone know more details?

Mark,

That operator end looks like a later cab control car configuration - even though it's still not right for that either. It looks more like one of those than a true Metroliner cab.

As far as trucks go, I think the Metroliner trucks look more like AAR type B trucks than anything else. WBB incorrectly used Genesis sideframes on some of their more recent models.

Fred

I have found that the most accurate replacement trucks for Metroliners are very similar to those found on later RDC's. Athearn's RDC trucks look quite good on a few HO restorations I've done to a fleet of Bachmann cars that lost their trucks.

The extrusion has no window cut outs? Do you need to provide that yourself? If so how? Just curious. I have several Williams O "gauge" cars and would like to get a more scale Metroliner to play with.

However, Fred called it. The Williams late cars have the Genesis unit style side frames which are not very close. Also every single car in the set is set up to be a power unit and is weighted as such. A single powered unit will not pull the weight of the four car set up a grade. I added a second powered unit, but then robbed parts for a Genesis project instead ......

I would think that the Williams end caps might actually work in the extrusion you have if it is the same style extrusion. The cab side parts you got are definitely post Metroliner rebuilds into cab cars. Even after the Amtrak rebuild program, the Metroliners retained the single window for the cab. I remember them running in service between Philly and Harrisburg during their final years as powered units.

Though it is kind of hard to tell the profiles from the photograph I think that control end might actually be based on the old Budd SPV-2000's. They also had only one offset window, but the overall shape sure looks more like this: RRPictureArchives.net SPV-2000 than a cab control car's.

Fred

Fred you insight is right on.

I have been looking and pondering what to do next.

Doing a double end, plastic and then metal and massive filling and molding is one option, seeing if WBB can or will sell operator ends separately is another.

No really good answer right now.

quote:

The extrusion has no window cut outs? Do you need to provide that yourself? If so how?

I have found an end mill to be the only viable way to cut windows, unless you have a special punch setup. You can hand-file if you want, but your psychiatrist bill will be much bigger than the cost of a small mill.