PS-1 stuck in Reset

If the only changes that you have made since it last ran is to add the BCR, have you given the BCR a full minute to charge?  If the BCR isn't fully charged, the PS-1 board will not respond and operate normally.

Thanks for the reply but that's not it.  The BCR is good and previously so was the battery.

Try pressing the boards together at the connectors.  Sounds like you may have a bad connection.

Been a long time since I have owned a PS1, but isn't that the Clangs of Death?

I have a PS1 repair chip you could use if that is the problem.  

Ron

@Ron045 posted:

Been a long time since I have owned a PS1, but isn't that the Clangs of Death?

I have a PS1 repair chip you could use if that is the problem.  

Ron

 

Nope. This is something different. Just stuck in reset mode. 

Please take some video of it and show your hand on the Z-500 in the same frame so I can see exactly what you are doing and I can tell you exactly what is going on..... I am not sure if I am totally following what you wrote. It's easier to see it as if I am there myself.

Video shows using the power control and then the direction button.  The recording has a tapping sound that I can't hear live even with my ear next to the locomotive.  

@Ron045 posted:

Been a long time since I have owned a PS1, but isn't that the Clangs of Death?

I have a PS1 repair chip you could use if that is the problem.  

Ron

 

Hello Ron,

I have a couple of PS1 engines that run just fine. 

But what is a PS1 repair chip? 

Is this something I should have in my tool box for future use?

@Cumberland Valley posted:

Video shows using the power control and then the direction button.  The recording has a tapping sound that I can't hear live even with my ear next to the locomotive.

im not sure why you’re starving it at the very first notch on the Z-controller like that... PS1 needs at least 8v to start up properly and should be brought all the way up to about 16v briefly on power up. I wait until the start up sound finishes, then throttle back down from 16v to about 8v (a little after 12 o clock on a Z-Controller). As you roll back toward 8v you’ll  hear an engine let off sound like this “shhhwaaaaaaaaashhh” (and if you repeat that cycle over and over you’ll be scrolling through resets). But with every start up I bring it up quickly to at least 8v and then up to 16v and then back down to about 8v. Then I hit DIR or throttle off and up again within a second and it unlocks.

keeping the throttle where you have it around 9-10 o clock is about 3-5v. That’s STARVING her and probably not allowing that old early generation PS1 board to unlock properly.

Gen 1 PS1: 1993-1994 doesn’t care what power you use or how you cycle

Gen 2 PS1: 1995 normally needs pure power to unlock from reset, period. (Z-4000, or postwar power)

Gen 3 PS1: 1996-1997 (deselect era) will work properly on the Z-controller or TIU chopped wave, starting at at least 8v

Gen 4 (final) PS1: 1997-2000 will work properly on the Z-controller or TIU chopped wave, starting at at least 8v

*OP - try turning your throttle up to 3 o clock on start up - wait till engine start up sounds play out and then roll it back down to off and back up again, or roll it down to 12 o clock and hit DIR. see what happens.

@Allegheny posted:

Hello Ron,

I have a couple of PS1 engines that run just fine. 

But what is a PS1 repair chip? 

Is this something I should have in my tool box for future use?

Allegheny, 

PS-1 Reset Kit is 50-1023 and pictured here.  I guess the main culprit to the Clangs of Death is a bad battery.  You pull OUT the PS chip with the chip puller.  Replace the battery and INSERT the reset chip, follow the instructions.  Then you replace the original PS chip.

https://mthtrains.com/sites/de...ction/50as18155i.pdf

An interesting note side note...  Since it is believed the OP's problem is the engine is stuck in reset, here is the last step in the in the instructions...

11.) If the engine still will not leave RESET contact MTH Service. If you have any questions during the use of the Force chip, contact a MTH Service Technician, 410-381-2580.

Ron

My understanding for power up was to stay below 10v to come out of Reset.  I followed Ddot's guidance but got the same result.  When I try to move, I hear 1 bell, the engine sound fades out while the pumping sound continues.  Throttling from 16V to 10v I hear the shush and 1 Clank.  At no time are there 3 clanks.

When I had the issue before the shop in Hagerstown said there was nothing wrong and that it ran fine for him.  I got it home, paid closer to attention to moving the throttle and after a few attempts it ran.  I assumed it was overly sensitive to voltage and ran it some more times before boxing it up until this week.

I assume the Force chip is worth a try.

@Cumberland Valley posted:

My understanding for power up was to stay below 10v to come out of Reset.  I followed Ddot's guidance but got the same result.  When I try to move, I hear 1 bell, the engine sound fades out while the pumping sound continues.  Throttling from 16V to 10v I hear the shush and 1 Clank.  At no time are there 3 clanks.

When I had the issue before the shop in Hagerstown said there was nothing wrong and that it ran fine for him.  I got it home, paid closer to attention to moving the throttle and after a few attempts it ran.  I assumed it was overly sensitive to voltage and ran it some more times before boxing it up until this week.

I assume the Force chip is worth 

if you have the chip try it - if that doesn’t work my bet is a loose board connection or cold solder on one of the boards ..I think someone else mentioned that before.

you're welcomed to get in touch over email if you need help/repair 

The ONLY thing the reset chip fixes is the three clangs of death.  It will not fix this problem.

You need to turn up the throttle up to at least 12v for the first minute of start up. The bcr needs it and the ps1 board needs it for start up. After that, drop the throttle down until you hear that  schwish sound as stated above. Then hit the direction button. It should go. I have more than one ps1 engine that will act just like that if not started like this. Hope it helps.

Gunrunner, BTW I did try seating the boards together and checked plug connections.

Paul, I've tried that and any combination I can think of repeatedly.  The "schwish" only sounds when I throttle up above 16V but is always followed by 1 Clank.

Are there any recommended repair guys within an hour or so of Gettysburg?

Do you have a MTH Z4000 or Lionel Post war transformer you can try the engine with? 1033 or larger.

No, I only have that transformer.  As you are the second to suggest (my words) that an MTH transformer is not good enough for an MTH engine, I have started looking for Z-1000.  I'll consider a 4000 if I come across a very good price.

@Cumberland Valley posted:

No, I only have that transformer.  As you are the second to suggest (my words) that an MTH transformer is not good enough for an MTH engine, I have started looking for Z-1000.  I'll consider a 4000 if I come across a very good price.

here’s what you have to understand. That is really a QSI engine inside an MTH body. The engine predates that controller so the appropriate compatible transformer is one from its day - the z-4000 or sometime older like postwar. yes, I realize that is not the answer you want to hear - but truthfully - MTH engines (electronically speaking) didn’t really begin until about 2001 - with PS2. Those engines through today will have no trouble with your MTH controller 

@Cumberland Valley posted:

No, I only have that transformer.  As you are the second to suggest (my words) that an MTH transformer is not good enough for an MTH engine, I have started looking for Z-1000.  I'll consider a 4000 if I come across a very good price.

I think the Z-1k is also a chopped wave fyi. Pure sine is more important than a mfg. label matching up on PS1 I recall my brother saying that about his, and my buying a KW for him that he used for a while.  He was mad as a hatter too. His early mth experience wasn't all that great, but he still prefers it.

I, on the other hand, am amazed at how many "down engines" he put up with and still loved it. 

I liked that PS-1 history breakdown @DdotCdot . I don't think Ive seen that before.   It helped me put brothers MTH issues into better perspective overall.  It was the #2 PS-1s that held all the issues for him from what I can tell.

What worked in my case it is a new, charged (maybe over charged) MTH 50-1008 green rechargeable battery.

The facts:

I bought on ebay a Centipede Set 20-2200 equipped with QSI. I installed a new 50-1008, that I charged for about 2 hours; it showed about 11V on analog voltmeter. Did not move, 2 bangs, compressor sound and nothing else.

I tried everything that you shared on the forum (for which I cannot thank you enough) including re-set 18 with a MTH Z-4000 with no positive result.

I took the battery out and I charged it for about 6-7 hours; the needle of my analog voltmeter was strongly banging at the end of 10V scale.

I installed the battery in the lead unit, gave power under 10V and then 0V and when I powered again started to move. No re-set 18.

Thanks again for all your experience shared on the forum.

I have 2 locos that do this periodically.  

One routine gets mine unstuck and might help others.

I use the throttle to put the loco into Reset 6 (volume control). I cycle thru the 4 volume settings and shut the power off. When I power back on about 2 seconds later, they run.

Can I explain it? Nope. Are my locos bricked? Nope.

Inspect both boards for any burned component and also check for any cold solder joints.  If nothing appears damaged I would replace the sound chip with a chip from another locomotive, the chip may be scrambled.  Power up to over 16 volts, then after startup, decrease the voltage to approximately 9 volts and try it.

If still no response, either of the two boards may have problems.

Bruce

@Adriatic posted:

I think the Z-1k is also a chopped wave fyi. Pure sine is more important than a mfg. label matching up on PS1 I recall my brother saying that about his, and my buying a KW for him that he used for a while.  He was mad as a hatter too. His early mth experience wasn't all that great, but he still prefers it.

I, on the other hand, am amazed at how many "down engines" he put up with and still loved it.

I liked that PS-1 history breakdown @DdotCdot . I don't think Ive seen that before.   It helped me put brothers MTH issues into better perspective overall.  It was the #2 PS-1s that held all the issues for him from what I can tell.

Correct. That’s exactly right.  “Gen. 2” PS1’s are the only ones that will not get moving with chopped power. You must use pure sine with those, period. These are from 1995 (mostly) and introduced reset 18. These normally require a battery just like later Gens.

”Gen. 1” PS1’s will cycle direction with chopped wave form power - but getting reliable whistle or bell or coupler response is like pulling teeth without pure power. These are from 1993-1994 and used the battery strictly as a “back-up” system, but did not rely on the battery to shift out of RESET mode. You can safely run these without a battery, but your sounds will cut out during power cycles without one.

A lot of this all boils down to what chip set you have in your boards. It’s the chip and the software version burned into it that typically dictates the behavior.  Clearly QSI was making all sorts of revisions and improvements in the chips over at least the first 5 years of development. They finally got it all right by about 1998

-I don’t have any hard facts on this, and strictly go by the thousands of PS1 engine boards I’ve seen over the last 5 years (yes, I’ve seen every single PS1 engine by now), but it’s been enough experience to see that chips had approx four major revisions, bottom boards seemed to have changed about three times, and top boards seem to have gone through about five or six silent iterations with very minimal changes.

If the battery charging circuit is bad the BCR does not charge and the unit won't come out of reset.  Replace BCR with a new alkaline 9V for testing.  If it runs you have a bottom board issue.  G