What am I looking at to upgrade a PS1 Greenbrier?
PS 3 or ERR; or is there something else I’m not familiar with?
What is the skill level? I can wire and solder but not familiar with a scope, etc.
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1. Good soldering skills
2. half decent selection of basic hand tools
3. light to medium duty fabrication skills
4. basic understanding of electronics ( so things don’t go poof )
5. good cable management skills
6. the ability to think
7. the ability to understand basic installation instructions
scope unnecessary unless you can’t do #4 …..in which case, the scope would do you no good anyhow ……😉
Pat
Pat's advice is very sound. I might add that the instructions from ERR are clear and straightforward. The biggest problem you will face is locating the components and installing the antenna. Think this part of the project through before you begin. As far as installing the antenna goes there seems to be two schools of thought: Pat's - involving modifying the coal load in the tender and GRJ's using Kapton tape. No judgement here as to which one.
My 'scope comes out when I'm designing boards or sorting out oddball issues, I don't normally think of it for a stock ERR install.
Attention to detail is key, shorted wires will bite you! 
If you scroll down here you can see what a PS3 kit installation looks like:
https://ogrforum.com/...c/169374064469330137
Pretty straight forward. As noted before wire routing so as not to pinch (ground) wires is the key to a successful installation.
@modeltrainsparts posted:Pat's advice is very sound. I might add that the instructions from ERR are clear and straightforward. The biggest problem you will face is locating the components and installing the antenna. Think this part of the project through before you begin. As far as installing the antenna goes there seems to be two schools of thought: Pat's - involving modifying the coal load in the tender and GRJ's using Kapton tape. No judgement here as to which one.
You’re correct John, I forgot to mention the part about the antenna with anything TMCC, …….good catch!…..that can be the biggest hang up on a DIY project!!…
Pat
I upgraded my Greenbrier in the early 2000’s when the ps2 upgrade kits first came out. Still runs good to this day. If you do decide to go the mth route, you will want to order a shorter coupler than provided as it sticks out a ways.
The mth ps3 kit gives you everything you need for the following:
-4 chuffs per revolution
-synchronized smoke
-cruise control and dcs control
-nice wire harness to go between tender and engine using the existing mounts from the ps1 set up.
-ability to use sound files that have specific talk and crew chatter.
The Lionel route (or Err), you are going to need allot more hardware (and money, I think it may be double) to accomplish the same thing.
- ERR motor board/R4LC ($150)
- super chuffer ($75)
- chuff generator ($40)
- generic sound electronics for Lionel ($125)
- purchasing an additional wire harness to go between the engine and tender.
- and the process of figuring out how to do the antenna
I would argue there is a lot more thinking on design (board placement and wire routing) involved with the lionel approach, where as the mth approach includes all the wires/ harnesses and they route to one central board stack once mounted in the tender.
The only down falls of the mth approach are the following
-you will need to commit to uploading the sound file ( not a big deal, but intimidates some, no different than updating a DCS remote)
-need to be extra careful when handling mth electronics as they are very sensitive to static when installing them (should be using a static Matt for either install)
-my opinion, the sounds are not as rich as Lionel’s
For reference here is a YouTube video of some one going through most of the mth upgrade installation process. Disclaimer here, I have no idea why this gentlemen went this route as this was a former ps2 model and he could have just swapped the board moving the wire harness plugs over from the blown board and not lost allot of the light functionality in the engine. I didn’t have the harness mounting issue he showed in the video.
And the big one Mike. Pinch a wire with the MTH board set and it's very often curtains! Pinch a wire with the Lionel setup and it can usually be fixed much cheaper. 
Bob- I've done 2 ERR upgrades (diesels), and fitting everything under the shell is the first challenge. Gunrunner John has been a huge help. A steamer is in my future...just don't know when yet. 
From what I've read, the upgrade of an MTH engine is straight forward when staying with MTH components. Switching to ERR requires additional parts, wiring, etc. The couplers are first thing that needs to be changed. I've also heard that the PS3 kits are not available but I could be wrong.
The ERR kits are easy to install as well, I've done LED upgrades on both which took more time and effort since I was upgrading conventional engines.
I have a few PS1's that I would like to do one day as well.
If the "scope" you refer to is the "scope of work", its as discussed. If you are talking about an oscilloscope then you're outside my learning curve too.
Good luck,
Bob
@RSJB18 posted:From what I've read, the upgrade of an MTH engine is straight forward when staying with MTH components. Switching to ERR requires additional parts, wiring, etc. The couplers are first thing that needs to be changed. I've also heard that the PS3 kits are not available but I could be wrong.
PS/1 couplers are compatible with TMCC, it's the PS/2 couplers that don't work with TMCC.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:PS/1 couplers are compatible with TMCC, it's the PS/2 couplers that don't work with TMCC.
Hi.....my name is Bob.....and I'm a newbie.......
I yield the balance of my time.....
Bob
@RSJB18 posted:Hi.....my name is Bob.....and I'm a newbie.......
I yield the balance of my time.....
Remember, we were all newbie's at one time.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:And the big one Mike. Pinch a wire with the MTH board set and it's very often curtains! Pinch a wire with the Lionel setup and it can usually be fixed much cheaper.
Don't pinch a wire, problem solved 😉.
I've installed dozens of PS3 upgrade kits and not pinched a wire. However I always break out the multi meter before applying power to anything to double check there are no shorts to ground, just to double check.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Remember, we were all newbie's at one time.
another nugget of information to add to the database.
Thanks John
@Lou1985 posted:Don't pinch a wire, problem solved 😉.
I've installed dozens of PS3 upgrade kits and not pinched a wire. However I always break out the multi meter before applying power to anything to double check there are no shorts to ground, just to double check.
You ain’t done nothing till you’ve destroyed something!…..🤣🤣🤣
Pat
@harmonyards posted:You ain’t done nothing till you’ve destroyed something!…..🤣🤣🤣
Pat
I blew up a CCM once. All the magic smoke came out. Fun times.
@Lou1985 posted:I blew up a CCM once. All the magic smoke came out. Fun times.
I went to bore a gear made out of unobtanium, and wound up coring it like an apple on a peeler,……😌…..proud of that one!…
Pat
