PS-2 batterries

I looked for a good answer to some of your questions and got a host of replies. Some like the BCR's some don't, some will tell you only use the MTH batteries. Some will tell you any decent battery from Nicads to nimh to l ion. First a 5 volt ps2 and a ps1 unit use an 8.4 volt (looks like a 9 volt) these have no charging port or a round one on the bottom of the unit. The ps2 3 volt first used a double pack AA sized then a double packed AAA size. the ps2 3 volt units have a square charging port.

Based on the answers I received on my thread. I'll stop short of advice except to say a good fresh battery is never a bad idea in older equipment especially if it's 15 years old or older. I also have found exact replacements for the 8.4 volt units on the bay, many 5 times or more less expensive than a bcr. I went that route as all the experts say the 5 volt boards will fail anyway and are no longer available. (so why pay so much for a bcr you wont need much longer for a board you can't replace?) The batteries I use work just fine and except for a sound amp, I've never had a 5 volt ps2 unit totally fail. I have never had to replace batteries in a 3 volt board unit.

The BCR's are THE solution - their capacitance circuits obviate the need for batteries, and the fine folks at J & W Electronics in York, PA will advise you which ones you need for your PS-2 locos. Highly recommended!

I have all bcrs installed in my ps3volt engines and they all read full battery every time with my dcs wifi app. Best move I ever made with my mth engines. My engines can set for months unrun on my shelfs as I have a small layout right now and lots of engines. With the bcrs its no fus no mus just set the loco on the track and run it. No more worrying about the battery or if its charged. I only have two 5 volt board engines so I just keep a good mth battery in them. Some day they may go bad as marty stated so they are not worth a bcr install IMO. Hope this helps.

LIRR STEAMER, every time this subject comes up, it's like a big can of worms is opened up. Everyone has had different experiences with batteries and BCRs. So each response will be from their personal experience with each. The number 1  battery advice has always been to never start up an engine that contains the white 8.4 volt MTH battery and install a fully charged new MTH green battery. I personally don't like making the old 5 volt boards, that use the 8.4 volt battery, work any harder then they have to. So I don't use the engine to charge the battery and also don't use a BCR that puts a maximum work load, on the 15 year old charging circuit, every time the engine started with discharged super caps. I haven't had the wonderful performance in the BCR world that most swear by here on the forum. So far I had two 8.4 volt BCRs go bad, one 3 volt BCR, and two PS3 super caps go bad in engines. One of those engines was an MTH HO scale. You know their bad when you have to re-add your engine to the remote every time you use it. As far as the 3 volt battery packs, everyone seems to agree they hold up very well.

Interestingly, MTH was usually the innovator ahead of the curve, yet the folks who gave us the Z4000 and DCS, failed to develop early on a capacitance circuit which LGB had some twenty-years ago. The technology behind the PS-3 citcuitry existed at the time of PS-1, but was not utilized by MTH for reasons unknown. My LGB sound crocodile from about 1997 still sounds great after all these years with its capacitance circuitry!

My take is that, as long as you adhere to the following guidelines, you won't go wrong:

• Use any high-quality 8.4 volt NiCad, NiMH or Ll-ion battery, or an original BCR, in a PS2 5 volt engine.
• Use any 2.4 volt AA or AAA battery pack from MTH, or a BCR2, in a 3 volt PS2 engine.
• Discard and replace immediately any 8.4 volt white MTH battery.
• Do not use a 7.2 volt rechargeable battery under any circumstances.
• Use a non-rechargeable 9 volt battery only as a temporary measure for a short period of time.

Hi Folks

Thanks for all your responses on this topic. The info and experience you have supplied is most helpful to myself and I am sure others who view this post and have these same locos in their fleet. 

I have used BCRs with good experience in about a dozen PS-1 engines that I have . I do know of a couple of failure events with BCRs other than the experience mentioned in this thread. As I have a few of these BCRs left that replace the 8.4 volt battery, my plan would be to replace the MTH white batteries with these BCRs in engines that have the 5 volt boards. 

Its probably been on the forum but can anyone tell me what year of production that MTH went to the 3 volt boards for PS-2? I have early PS-2 like the First Dreyfuss Hudson, the J1 with centipede tender, a PRR Q2, the P&LE A class Berkshire and a PRR first PS-2 Atlantic. Thinkinking these were all 5 volt boards. I will check for the presence of the appropriate charging port . 

Mike W, Tinplate art and Lionel ZW your experience is what I was looking for in my post as well as your recommendations.. Dave ducal, your experience is well detailed and I appreciate that . Good to hear about the 3 volt pack longevity. Barry thanks for your recommendations. as usual specific and detailed and to the point. 

So the last thing to find out for me is how late the 5 volt boards were used by MTH.

I have a first PS-2 run Mikado that was until recently running in DCS and conventional although sounds were a bit distorted . It is now totally unresponsive either DCS  or conventional.Thinking I have experienced a board failure and will need a 3 volt system transplant or maybe convert to TMCC/Legacy control. The engine is in North Carolina  so hoping to find someone nearby to bring it back to life.

Thanks to all again

PS-2 5V board where 2000 to 2003 with maybe some exceptions in 2004.  Later versions that use the BF-33 Star speaker had speakers deteriorate and cause sound distortions and loss of amplification.  Easy to replace.

The real issue is that the PS-2 5V board was built with components that were near there design limits.  Probably had a run of some bad components in some.

Dreyfus and FEF Northern have had real high failure rates based on my repair experience, others I have seen running fine despite overall bad condition of engine.

Do recommend getting a new battery between 4-5 years of use for 5V engines.  The 2.4V AA battery seem to last about 7 plus years, except the AAA version in small switchers.  The PS-2 3V are more robust boards and much less susceptible to battery issues.

These batteries do not deep drain, so a 2.4V charge that can last 10sec is easier to maintain, where as a 8.4V batteries can drop well below the 5V limit especially with one of the 7 cells in series going bad.  Hence why they do not last as long.  G

Hi LIRR Steamer,

Like yourself, I own many early PS2 engines that I haven't run in awhile, and had similar concerns about the batteries as you. I went through a series of questions and suggestions on the forum a few weeks ago on how to proceed. It looks like most information needed has been answered here. 

 While I'm no expert, one thing I will not do is take an engine that I haven't run in a while, put it on the track, and run with out testing. I've opened up all my engines recently, first to check the batteries and proceeded as needed.  For me, so far so good.

I've included the link to my original post that may fill in some of the grey area you may have.

https://ogrforum.com/...34#77734316029970134

Good luck,

Joe
(ironman1)

Thanks to all for all the good info on the subject.. After reading the replies to my post and considering the experience from all of you, particularly with respect  to design parameters and failure experience with the 5 volt boards , I  decided to try a charged MTH Green battery , the NIMH battery. I had charged this battery about a week ago. It initially read 10.3 volts right after the charge and declined slowly to 9.5 volts after a couple of days. It was remaining at that level for several days and I could use the battery check under load position on my Craftsman multimeter . I did
not see any drop in  the read voltage over time , maybe 30-40 seconds or
so. Looked like it was holding voltage and charge.

Installed it in the engine, put it on track for about 5-6 minutes and started successfully in DCS. Sounds clear , runs smoothly and all DCS functions worked.  Ran the engine for a few minutes, then shut down and let stay on the track charge for about two hours. Moved the engine to a transformer control track . Raised the throttle on the ZW and after a few seconds, sounds started as one would expect.
Lowering and raising the throttle started the engine moving and it ran well conventionally. Ran it a few loops and shut it down. Brought it back to the DCS track and it started and ran fine in DCS.

This is the oldest PS-2 that I have followed by the Niagara and the PRR Q2  which I believe were released early in 2001. These will be next and I have some green batteries on hand .

In the interest of science, I did put the battery that I removed from the dreyfuss  (Old Style case White NiCad ) on charge to see what would happen with a normal 7 hr charge with the Radio shack charger. The battery read .29 volts at the start of the charge. After 7 hrs in the charger , the battery was at about 10.3 volts and dropped within a day to about 9.3 volts where it ahs remained for several days . Holding the meter probes to the battery for 30-40 sec shows no sign of decay. It seems the battery did charge up . I don't plan to re-use it ; I was curious to see what might happen with a normal charge.

Yhe last time I ran this engine, maybe about a year earlier, a track charge did bring the engine up to start in both DCS and conventional with clear sounds. It did run in DCS but would not leave neutral in conventional.  Think that is a sign of a bad battery, I thought it interesting that the battery could charge up and seemingly hald that charge for an extended period.

I will continue with the green batteries for the remaining 5 volt board locos although I do have BCRS available. Thanks everyone for all your input and information . It was most helpful for me on this issue. 

LIRR, I have found when the white batteries are very low, sometimes the polarity on the post will be reversed. These guys could be the ones that will ruin a board. Even though that battery took a charge, I still wouldn't trust it in anything.  

Dave I agree. I am disposing of the old style white batteries. I did the charge to see how it might behave with respect to holding a charge after 18 years . That's how young that dreyfus is. Its of interest that this engine started and ran in DCS in 2017 with a track charge to that battery. No longer a possibility as it has a Green NIMH battery installed.