PS2 5v boards

I think it is hard to say.  I would say if they are running enjoy them.  If you like smoke and such why turn it off.  Replacement PS-2 3V boards with hardware kit to change speaker and battery Retails at $234.  The PS-32 5V (PS-3) repair parts retail at $253.   Plus Labor.   ASC may discount board parts.  I do.   Labor rates vary.  If you have the skills, doing it yourself with an upgrade kit is more cost effective.   ASC doing it, you get permanent engine name (Serial File) and warranty.  G

Here is what I have seen/experienced with the 5V boards I own and people ask me to repair. If the engines have been sitting for years and are brand new I see about a 47% failure rate when they are first put on the track, less so if the battery is new and fully charged. If the engines have been run in the past I find those boards to be as reliable as the 3V boards. Reducing the volume and smoke won't make any difference in my opinion if you have been running the engine. What blows on the 5V boards is a white capacitor that is on the power part of the board.

I've had pretty good luck replacing the large cap next to the relay on the top.  It's the largest cap, and the Wincap brand is the suspect brand.  If I see one of those on a working 5V board, I replace it.  It's a bog standard 330uf 35V cap, so they're readily available for peanuts.  Over half of the 30+ 5V boards in my dead board box over half have that cap bulged and/or leaking.  I don't claim that's the only failure for 5V boards, but I haven't gotten any of the ones back that I replaced that cap on.  If you see any leakage around that cap, or the top is slightly domed, I'd replace it before it's a problem.  These 5V boards were produced in the middle of the Capacitor Plague that affected many electrolytic capacitors of that era, I suspect they were part of the defective capacitors. 

More 5V talk. Any thoughts on fresh battery vs. bcr? I know George suggested to to me that he preferred the fresh green battery. I have a bunch of bcr's also. Is this also a plus for keeping these engines on powered tracks to keep the systems charged?

There's no plus to keeping them powered, and the chrono runs all the time they have power.  I think I probably agree with George on the battery, though the BCR is fine as well.  I take engines out that have been stored for a year or more, still have the "poop" to run and pass the battery rundown test.

John,

Is this a bad capacitor ( see photo)that you are talking about? I haven't had any problems and has about 300 miles.  But it hasn't been run it in a few months. Should I replace it as a precaution? I have a blue 220 mf 35v capacitor that is about 3 times its size. Is that ok to use?  Does the arrow on the side point to the plus lead?

I'm going to York if there is someone there who would have a better cap. Or is there someone to mail it to replace?

Bob Shaw

Can't tell by your photo. Guessing that's some kind of adhesive holding the cap in place?  The popping of the capacitor John mentioned would be on the top where the slits are or in your photo the bottom.

side question, what years were the 5 volt boards produced, 3 volt boards and when was the switch to PS3.

superwarp1 posted:

Can't tell by your photo. Guessing that's some kind of adhesive holding the cap in place?  The popping of the capacitor John mentioned would be on the top where the slits are or in your photo the bottom.

side question, what years were the 5 volt boards produced, 3 volt boards and when was the switch to PS3.

The capacitor John is referring is on the bottom board standing up. Replace without removing upper board. Upper board is two sided, you get into trouble speaking from experience.

The cap I speak of is the largest one on the board, as I said, a 330uf 35V tubular cap.  It's right next to the large black relay.

What I do is slightly spread the two boards and reach in with a very fine long tip soldering iron.  It's not for someone that doesn't have significant PCB repair experience.

Not speaking from technical experience or working on any board myself "I leave that to the expertise and advise from the guy's who have already commented" I find that around $10 goes a long way! I only have 2 engines with PS-1 and maybe two or three with a 5 volt board left. Before any one of them got any voltage I have installed a new green battery and haven't had a problem.  My good friend Marty Fitzhenery taught me that a long time ago. Also in my experience don't go by the..."The battery looks OK" I'm not sure how someone has the super powers to determine if a battery is good or bad just by looking at it but I know I don't!   Have fun with it and enjoy it and all it's features smoke and all!  I wouldn't worry too much if its going to crap out or not.    

The PS-2 5V boards started with Rev G around 2000 and ended up with REV K some where around 2004-2005.  PS-2 3V started as early as 2003, with #1 Gauge, but also showed up in some O with full conversion around 2005.

Work enough of these and you will find plenty of dead boards with that capacitor being fine.  If you read the plague, most of those caps failed with in 2 years.

There is plenty of items that can fail on a 5V board.  I do not believe any definitive study has been done to determine whether the chicken or the egg came first.

Can the cap cause a failure, sure.  Can other items fail, sure.  Can other items fail and cause the cap to fail sure.  I have only had a few (maybe 3) where replacing the cap fixed the board.   Are there engines that seem to have a higher 5V failure rate.  I think so, I have repaired more UP FEFs, some being brand new.  Yet I have seen engines so worn and dirty, and ill cared for yet still trucking along fine with a Rev G board from 2000.   The predominate board that fails is Rev I, but that is probably the board that was produced the most.  G

Add one to the capacitor fix count!  This was a timely entry to my workbench.  I got a board set that was drawing excessive current, about .8 amps when just idling with no smoke, about twice what a 5V board should do typically. It would actually come up in conventional mode, but I couldn't do anything, just listen to idle audio.  It was very flaky in command, I couldn't find it when adding an engine a few times, finally got it added to the remote and it actually seemed to function in command, then I couldn't find it again the next time I powered up.

A quick examination shows that the cap was certainly bulging, so I put it on my capacitor meter.  It was, shall we say, no longer a capacitor!  .01uf reading for a 330uf cap???  I replaced it, and current readings returned to normal, and the board is now fully functional in conventional and command.  FWIW it's a Rev. I board.

On a side note about capacitors. I had a Samsung HD TV from the mid 2000 with a power supply that failed within a year.  A little research and I found Samsung was cheap, used a capacitor that was rated at a voltage only slightly higher than the operating voltage.  So they didn't last and bulged and popped like the pic above.  I swapped them out with a cap with a voltage rating a little higher and have never had a problem.  

Now back to the 5 volt boards. Being a 35 volt cap you wouldnt think this would a issue with these boards.  With that said what voltage do they have across them and are these boards getting hot during normal operation? Which I would think not. Are these failures just a matter of a cheap manufacturer?

This particular cap has failed more than any other cap on the 5V boards for me, and they're the only one that is of the Wincap brand.

I have  five MTH engines with 5 volt boards. None of them have had mother board problems. And three of the five have the suspicious blue capacitors. So I wonder just how prevalent this problem is.

I counted, I have 32 bad 5V boards in my dead board box.  18 of them have swelling of the one cap I indicated.  Every one of those that I have removed and replaced, it's been four or five so far, have all exhibited very low capacitance, though not as bad as this most recent one.  I only do the replacement if they exhibit signs of failure, either bulging top, leaking around the top or bottom, or bulging bottom causing them to sit at an angle on the board.